started another sorority - Page 2 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #11 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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I have noticed the 3 Serpae Tetras nipping at the new Bettas fins. If they aren't careful they will find themselves being used to cycle an old 5 gallon set-up that is in the shed needing an excuse to go back into service.

I am serious about wanting to keep some female Bettas and money isn't the object. If they can possibly co-exist I plan to make it happen and no fish in that 33 gallon tank now is going to complicate matters.

The Bettas continue to act better towards each other, but I can't see them ever getting all "snuggly" or anything.

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post #12 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sweeda88 View Post
I would remove all of them from the tank, if I were you. It's not fair to the fish to live in such stressful conditions.
Sweeda88,

You will be pleased to know that this latest effort to have a Betta sorority began only 6 hours ago. All the serious fighting took place during the first hour. That was just previous to my first post and since then things have steadily gotten better. Now nothing is happening beyond a little "sassing" and some minor flaring and chasing. A blue female has emerged as the boss and she is spreading her authority around evenly and not targeting anyone in particular to make miserable.

I do appreciate your concern for the fish, but I think some fighting is a normal part of the process that must play out if I am to be successful. I was anxious too, as can be sensed in my early posts. This too is probably normal for anyone who wants to pull this off. Perhaps in my worried state of mind I was overly apprehensive and made it sound worse than it really was. Sorry about that.

I am not letting them tear each other apart or anything. Before it comes to that I will remove them and return them to the store without even expecting my money back - whatever is best for the fish. It looks now like the initial pecking has subsided and a peaceful sorority of females are indeed establishing themselves.

I'll report back.

Ralph

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post #13 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-23-2011, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RCinAL View Post
Sweeda88,

A blue female has emerged as the boss and she is spreading her authority around evenly and not targeting anyone in particular to make miserable.
Don't be surprised if the ranks continue to change. I had a red female early on who seemed to be on her way as the lower ranking female as all she did was hide in the corner by the plants and only come out for feeding. When any of the other 4 females flared or challenged her she stayed passive. This was the first 3-4 days or so.

At present she has grown more and more confidence and it's the other 4 who are now yielding to her.

Mine are all still adolescents tho so I suspect a True Dominant Queen won't emerge until they become more mature. Until then, I suspect temporary queen bee status to continue changing hands....

Last edited by scootshoot; 01-24-2011 at 12:01 AM.
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post #14 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-24-2011, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Don't be surprised if the ranks continue to change. I had a red female early on who seemed to be on her way as the lower ranking female as all she did was hide in the corner by the plants and only come out for feeding. When any of the other 4 females flared or challenged her she stayed passive. This was the first 3-4 days or so.

At present she has grown more and more confidence and it's the other 4 who are now yielding to her.

Mine are all still adolescents tho so I suspect a True Dominant Queen won't emerge until they become more mature. Until then, I suspect temporary queen bee status to continue changing hands....
Things are certainly changing. I came home from work today and all 7 Bettas came up to jockey for food. There was some minor flaring and nipping but not much else. All appear to be doing their own thing without too much regard for the others, though it is still apparent there is no love between them. I did notice a nipped fin or 2 but nothing that won't heal in a couple of weeks or worth fretting over. And I can't be 100% sure it came from another Betta as the Serpaes were seen nipping at them yesterday. Will be trying to fugure this one out for sure. All in all, so far so good... enough.

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post #15 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-24-2011, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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I sat and watched the tank for about an hour. These fish are curious indeed. Though there is no real damage taking place, the squabbling is apparent. A particular Betta will get approached and stared down by another and might swim off apparently shaken. Then 10 seconds later that same fish - the one that just got punked and decided to back down - will swim straight up to someone else and attempt to bully them. Then that fish - the latest to get a punking - might swim away quickly only to try and start trouble with another. A bit later any particular fish that might have just tried to start trouble with someone might brush peacefully past 2 others without paying a them bit of attention.

There seems to be no pattern except that none of these fish enjoys the company of another for very long. They did stop the shenanigans long enough to eat together in relative peace though so maybe there is hope. There is definitely an improvement from the out and out brawling that took place immediately upon their simultaneous release. At the moment no 2 seem willing to face off and fight it out. One will always retreat before it comes to that. I think the best anyone keeping a sorority can expect is that they just are not hurting each other. I kept all the little cups they came in just in case this experiment doesn't work. My fingers are crossed. Will report back in a few days.

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post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-24-2011, 11:11 PM
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I dont know... sororities are just too risky and many people quickly jump the bandwagon to do one. I mean, I remember reading a members post where he/she had a sorority for months and then one day BAM! dead fish.

I think the SAFEST way to do a sorority is if all the females are sisters who have been raised together from birth.
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post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-25-2011, 01:00 PM
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I mean, I remember reading a members post where he/she had a sorority for months and then one day BAM! dead fish.
.
lol, unless it's a topic related on fish health & disease, baffling techniques using sponges, etc. I take majority of the posts here or any messageboard topic for that matter with a grain of salt. Regardless of topic there will always be someone to counter it and/or have had negative experience.

Ghost shrimp attacking my betta! vs Mine have got along great for 5 years!

2.5 gallon minimum for bettas! vs I have had my betta in his 1/2 gallon bowl for 5 years!

Daphnia cured my betta's bloat vs I will never use Daphnia gain, my bettas bloating big time, Daphnia sucks!!

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etc
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post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-25-2011, 04:29 PM
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I still think people are quite quickly jumping into "sororities" because its the "in thing". I don't think I would ever do an all female betta tank. Maybe 4-5 (sibling) females in a massive community tank one day, but not stuff eight females from petco cups into a 10 gal (I know the OP's tank is bigger, just using examples I hear). I KNOW other members here have lost females because of fights that have taken place in the sororities. Why risk it? My 10 gal tank has only one female betta and some other peaceful community fish. I like it this way, she gets to be the centerpiece and I dont risk her beautiful fins and inflict stress on her.

Example thread:
Sorority Issue

Quote from OFL, an experienced member of the board:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
This is just my opinion.....when you place half grown to full grown unrelated female Bettas in a 10gal tank-the stress alone causes multi problems...starting with compromising the immune response and it is down hill from that point......in my opinion....sororities should start out in nothing smaller than 20 gallons with related females or if you can only get unrelated females they need to be under 2 months of age with lots of floating plants, low growing plants and most important tall plants that go all the way to the top to the point that they float somewhat on the surface in at least 6 different places-back-sides-middle..... to break the line-of-sight-this is to give them a way to the top without being seen....IMO-it is more important to have hiding places at the top and mid level not the bottom, however, this is important too-because Betta are top/surface dwelling fish and this isn't even talking about the feeding issues you can still have with sororities........

I have seen folks post about their 10g sororities that do well for about 6 months and then crash...rarely do you hear about them being successful much longer....some do...but it is rare......this is just my opinion.......

Shinybetta...sorry about your loss......these type of setup can be a challenge even for the most experienced keeper......


Enough with my anti-sorority rant lol... It's my opinion on the subject. Everyone's free to have their own.

Last edited by Alex09; 01-25-2011 at 04:36 PM.
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post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-25-2011, 09:24 PM
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That was OFL's reply to my thread. In my experience sororities are stressful on the fish, and like mine did, get sick and possibly die. Sororities should be in 20 gallon minimum and the females should be related.

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post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old 01-26-2011, 12:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alex09 View Post
I dont know... sororities are just too risky and many people quickly jump the bandwagon to do one. I mean, I remember reading a members post where he/she had a sorority for months and then one day BAM! dead fish.

I think the SAFEST way to do a sorority is if all the females are sisters who have been raised together from birth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex09 View Post
I still think people are quite quickly jumping into "sororities" because its the "in thing". I don't think I would ever do an all female betta tank. Maybe 4-5 (sibling) females in a massive community tank one day, but not stuff eight females from petco cups into a 10 gal (I know the OP's tank is bigger, just using examples I hear). I KNOW other members here have lost females because of fights that have taken place in the sororities. Why risk it? My 10 gal tank has only one female betta and some other peaceful community fish. I like it this way, she gets to be the centerpiece and I dont risk her beautiful fins and inflict stress on her.

Example thread:
Sorority Issue

Quote from OFL, an experienced member of the board:




Enough with my anti-sorority rant lol... It's my opinion on the subject. Everyone's free to have their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinybetta View Post
That was OFL's reply to my thread. In my experience sororities are stressful on the fish, and like mine did, get sick and possibly die. Sororities should be in 20 gallon minimum and the females should be related.
Well, I am convinced all of you are right. There is a reason these fish languish in tiny cups and jars their entire lives - they obviously like it that way. I will never again feel sorry for them. They almost don't deserve anything better.

Today one fish, a pearl with red fins, was chewed up pretty good and almost every one had minor fin damage. The colors are not great in any of them either. And yet, the bickering and bullying continues. These are 7 females in a 33 gallon community tank (same as a 55 but not as tall) with mostly Tetras and Glo-fish. There are plenty of plants and other places for them to hide and find comfort and solitude, but no, they choose to seek each other out and be miserable instead.

Bettas are not for me. These are going back into the tiny cups where they belong. They will be nursed back to full health as quickly as possible and then returned to the store. I will simply "donate" them back and consider this an education.

These fish simply hate each other on a level we humans can't comprehend. I wouldn't risk trying it again even with a pair of newborn female conjoined-at-the-head identical twins in an olympic-sized swimming pool.

Ralph

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