Guide to proper ADF care - Page 58 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #571 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 10:22 AM
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LittleWatty- I have no clue.. but Jes should be here soon.



Sooo, Atilla now gets into pellet wars with my farlowella pleco. They always shove each other around, yesterday he started sucking on her head (quickly pushed him off)! Removal? No, this only happens during feeding time so I can handle it, just gotta watch them. It's just... ATILLA. She did start it by shoving him away from the food.
Just.... Just....... Neither of them are supposed to even eat these pellets! Grrrr. They're for my poor cories!

taking a break from fish-keeping.
3 lovely male betta still keep me company.
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post #572 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 11:11 AM
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Hey, Watty! I don't know if I can be considered an 'expert' but I can try to help!

First, it IS common for boy frogs to be much smaller than girls. If you go over the last few pages, you should see a few comparisons that were made recently between the two.

It isn't uncommon for a new frog to be stressed out when you first bring them home. Sometimes they don't eat for a couple of days, and that's okay. However, it IS concerning - especially when the other one is settling in so well. . . It was good thinking to separate him from the other, but with frogs. . . it might not have the desired effect. For the most part (and as far as I have read) since you got them at the same time from the same shop, any illness that one has will have already affected the other. Plus having a buddy around may well help him feel more comfortable. I would put him back into the other tank, because it may only increase his stress to be kept in a little cup that needs the water changed so often to keep the water clean. I would just back off, wait, and watch. Leave the lights off, and make sure the little guy has plenty of cover/hiding places as he adjusts to his new home. If you're seeing a problem (like Olympia has) with the bigger frog taking all of the food, you can try to target feed the little guy using a pair of tweezers or a turkey baster - or just putting it right in front of his little face, so he doesn't have to 'find' it.

May I ask what you're feeding them? Some frogs (mine!) will absolutley not take the pellets, ever. Wet-frozen brine shrimp or bloodworm (defrosted, of course) is a good place to start with these guys.

I'd give them very small amounts - maybe about as big as a half- of a pea EACH. They can and will eat until they pop, and over-feeding can cause bloat, which is not something you want to have to deal with. Clean up whatever hasn't been eaten after a bit, but it's not good to just leave it in there. In situations like this, I personally find it very helpful to quietly sit back and watch for a while to make sure they've eaten, and take the food out when you're done watching. You need to know for sure if he's eating or not. . .

I hope this helps somewhat, good luck on your little guy - please keep us posted on how he does. I hope he's okay!
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post #573 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 11:22 AM
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I did browse the thread a bit first :) They're about the same size, just one is really skinny and it looks like he has no meat on him what so ever. His skin is also really pale as well compared to the "fat" one.

Lots of little hiding places for all of them. Betta included. I've got two tall plants that will obscure the view from betta to frog when one or both go up for air. Also have a hollow resin log, a couple java fern, and a fluval chi plastic (yeah, plastic...) clover type carpet thing in one corner of the tank. Too thick for much other than the frogs to get into. There's a little cranny between the carpet, the log, and my live banana plant that the frogs just seem to love hiding in. Very dark, very secluded, despite being in the middle of the tank. I'll definitely be getting more cover for them at some point in time, I just have to wait for my next paycheck.

I've got Frog & Tadpole bites as well as frozen bloodworms. I've tried the little bites, but they don't seem to like them. The bloodoworms are a hit with the healthy looking frog, and also with their betta "overlord" XD I have to cup the betta in order to feed them, otherwise he snatches up all the food. So far I think I've seen the skinny one take one bloodworm since he's been here, and that was this morning. I'll definitely take your advice and put the skinny one in with the healthy one. Only reason I was keeping him separate was to make sure he actually got food. Despite looking so sickly, he was the only one that was really active at Petco XD I'm guessing he might have been there a while, considering the shape he was in. Most of the others were plump, but weren't really moving around much. (the employee that got them for me was really clueless, made me wish that the other employee I had made friends with was the one that helped me. Her last job made her go to fish school, and she definitely knows her stuff)

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post #574 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 11:56 AM
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I can understand the desire to 'cup' him, considering the circumstances - especially if you're more familiar with Betta! But I do suspect that for a frog it would be best to let him get used to his new home, so I'm glad to hear that you're putting him back - it sounds like you have a great environment set up in there for all of them!

I also had trouble feeding in community, most of us do - Olympia is the weird exception, since her female frog dominates the entire tank at feeding time, lol! This is not usually the case, I've found! Cupping your betta - if it doesn't cause him undo stress - isn't a bad idea, at least until the froggies are used to the feeding routine.

If you got him to eat a bloodworm or two, it sounds like he's on the right track! The paleness can be a sign of stress - I've seen it before, and it's frightening! Hopefully it's ONLY stress, and a day or two of settling in with high-protein blood-worms and dim lighting will do the trick to get him back on track. Another thing to consider is that younger frogs tend to be more lightly colored than older ones, so it *may* be that his lack of color and skinny frame are just because he's younger than the other. Do you happen to be able to post pictures of them both up? I'd love to actually see the guy.

MY Petsmart feeds their frogs on wet-frozen goodies. I can't remember offhand if it was bloodworm or Brine - I think Brine, so it might be worth asking them what the frogs are used to being fed in-shop - he may take it better at first. But generally speaking ALL frogs love bloodworm, and it should fatten him up pretty quickly - as long as he actually continues to eat the stuff.

It really sounds like you're doing everything right, I think. . .just let him settle in and keep the lights low, and he'll be fine. You can try to offer him another bite to eat this evening, since they're nocturnal they're more comfortable feeding at that time of day. Since all of these are tank-bred, it doesn't necessarily matter as a general rule, but it can't hurt to try :)

Good luck!!! He sounds like a cutie!
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post #575 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 12:03 PM
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I'll definitely get pictures as soon as I find my camera XD its MIA at the moment. Its probably just be hiding in the mess of half destroyed boxes and plastic from things I got at Petco recently XD

Cupping does stress Tintrí a bit, but he handles it a lot better than most of my other bettas. He gorged himself on the frog's food this morning, though, so I cupped him and tried again.

So far the skinny frog has been exploring the bottom of the tank. I added a bunch of what I believe is java moss just to give them more cover on the bottom of the tank. Once I get my paycheck, I'll be getting some low/small growing plants like dwarf hair grass and maybe a small crypt to give them some more natural cover.

Also, I'll definitely have to be keeping an eye out for the Chytrid Fungus. My Petco has both ADF and ACF, but they're not housed in the same tanks. ADF's are in the community tanks, ACF's in the plant tank.

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post #576 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 12:27 PM
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Camera located! :D Forgive the loads of pictures XD

First set is the skinny frog. Then the split tank (Dov on left, unoccupied middle, and Tintrí right), and their betta "overlord" Tintrí who is still bloated from this mornings feast of frog food. Then the healthy frog is last. Doing that order so the frogs don't get mixed up lol

On the tank pictures, you can kind of see a flat river rock that I was going to use as a "plate" for the frogs. Might move it to a more secluded place.
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post #577 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 12:29 PM
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Aww he does look skinny. Good luck with both of them! That betta is gorgeous, by the way. I saw a steel/silver halfmoon at my favourite pet store a while ago and absolutely loved the little thing, such a wonderful colouring!

"There will come a time when three words uttered with charity and meekness shall receive a far more blessed reward than three thousand volumes written with disdainful sharpness of wit."
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post #578 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 12:31 PM
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Tintrí is still stressed from being cupped earlier (and from the new tank with water movement vs. his old kritter keeper) so his colors aren't coming in nearly as nice as they normally do. He's got an album on my profile that shows his colors far better.

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post #579 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 12:37 PM
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Just found both frogs right next to each other, which was the perfect opportunity to get a shot of both to show how different they are. Healthy looking dark frog on left, skinny pale frog on right (notice how gaunt he is?). He also has these weird opaque kneecaps. Don't know if its just the bone being right up against the skin for lack of meat, or what, but his joints are really really pale, especially the knees.
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post #580 of 1731 (permalink) Old 08-20-2012, 01:31 PM
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Yup! He's hungry allright! I wouldn't worry too much about the knees, as long as the skin isn't broken - I've seen that before, and actually one of my babies has it, too - but it's gotten MUCH better since he came to live with me :) I've never read anything about it being an issue, OR about it being normal. Maybe Giz will stop by with some more info on that.

The setup is PERFECT for them, and the fact that he's come out to explore a bit tells me that he's already feeling a bit more comfortable. I wish there was another place for you to put the betta while they settle in, at least. It's much easier to let them feed at their leisure, and we sure don't want that beauty of a Betta getting bloat from all the bloodworms!!! It is what it is, though - I'm sure you'll work it out!

I think he'll do very well in here. Just give a little bit of time for him to settle in and get used to things. There is no doubt that your tank is MUCH nicer for a frog than the one he was in at PetSmart! If you look at a frog from above or below you can see that their stomachs are located slightly to the left of their spines. A frog with a full tummy is easy to spot, as their left sides will gently curve outward. As it is - it looks like his bows IN, which isn't so good! Hopefully the bloodworm fatten him up quickly for you, and he'll be feeling fine in no time. I wish we had some history, it could be that he wasn't as big/aggressive as the others during feeding time and so never got his fair share - hopefully that's just it, and not an actual sickness, so he'll be chubbing up soon under your watchful care.

Good call to keep a sharp eye out for Chyrtrid. There ARE treatment options available, so if you have to take that route, we can help guide you through. If it's caught early enough, the frogs can recover. :) There has also been a raised level of awareness about Chytrid, and many shops have taken steps to prevent the spread of this terrible illness. I don't know about petCO, but PetSmart tests all of their frogs, so hopefully PetCo does the same.
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