Let's Talk: What is a Dragon Scale? - Page 2 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 11:46 PM
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I eventually made one of the couch benches, that we bought from Ikea, into my "fish table" xD It's currently holding my 10gal with two 3gals on each side of the 10. Then I have Natsu in his 1.5gal right beside the couch bench on a small coffee table.
My newest boy, Mystogan, is in a 2gal bowl in the bedroom, which is off limits to my cat when I'm not in there. He was getting scared senseless by my cat, who seems attracted to his flashy colours. To me, it doesn't look like I have a lot, but they do take up space lol

I do have a 3 gallon still in its box, I'm saving that one for an elephant ear, if I ever find one T-T
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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 01:26 AM
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very great introduction lilnaugrim!
one thing that I would add in is the genetics aspect of dragons, and which layer of skin the dragon scale occurs over.

dragon scaling occurs on the top and most superficial layer (blue) of the betta. recall the layers of a betta's color: (inner) cellophane/red/black/blue (top)

thus, the scaling can only occur wherever blue (or its variations) is present. this is also why there is no such thing as a true metallic black, or a metallic red. in other words, that red, copper, black dragon you're seeing is actually a blue betta with a yellow/red/black wash.
white, green/turq, royal blue, steel blue, and copper, are all variants of the blue layer and therefore these colors are what you will find dragons in.

use the info on breeding blue bettas to help you determine what color your metallics will be in.

Last edited by amphirion; 03-08-2014 at 01:30 AM.
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post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for that amphirion! Knew I would forget something ^_^

Are you talking about my girl Lady Deathstrike or the first boy I had posted?

That is also why there is no such thing as a true Blue Dragon as well, the color layering does not allow for blue fins and another color to be on top since blue IS the top layer, the fish would come out all blue or some slight variation thereof.

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Leopards: 1:4 Hawkeye, Luna, Astrael, Dorian, Cullen
Gargoyle: Cloudjumper and Toothless
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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 12:05 PM
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Actually lilnaugrim, I believe my statement applies to every single betta you shared except for the salamander. The red dragon has metallic white and red fins right? Without the dragon scale, it would have been a milky opaque or copper betta with a red wash on its fins. White is a mutation residing in the blue layer. Same thing with lady death strike, she could be a steel blue or copper betta without the dragon scale gene. You noted that the shiny layer is thicker, but notice which layers aren't: black and red. :)

I hate to correct you with concern to blues, but if you recall, the marble gene can cause different manifestations of blue to appear on the same fish. I've seen quite a few bettas on aquabid that sport turquoise, royal blue, and white (not cello) on their bodies. Note in all instances though that the dragon scale affects all these colors. Or maybe I'm not understanding you correctly? You're right that the blue layer is the last and no other color can be placed on top of that.
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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amphirion View Post
Actually lilnaugrim, I believe my statement applies to every single betta you shared except for the salamander. The red dragon has metallic white and red fins right? Without the dragon scale, it would have been a milky opaque or copper betta with a red wash on its fins. White is a mutation residing in the blue layer. Same thing with lady death strike, she could be a steel blue or copper betta without the dragon scale gene. You noted that the shiny layer is thicker, but notice which layers aren't: black and red. :)

I hate to correct you with concern to blues, but if you recall, the marble gene can cause different manifestations of blue to appear on the same fish. I've seen quite a few bettas on aquabid that sport turquoise, royal blue, and white (not cello) on their bodies. Note in all instances though that the dragon scale affects all these colors. Or maybe I'm not understanding you correctly? You're right that the blue layer is the last and no other color can be placed on top of that.
Previously you had said: "...that red, copper, black dragon you're seeing is actually a blue betta with a yellow/red/black wash..." which seemed to imply you were looking at a certain fish, I was asking which one you were looking at or if you were just talking in general?

And I don't mean all Blue Dragons, I mean the ones that are labeled such as Yellow Dragon, Black Dragon, etc. their color of having, say it was a Black Dragon, black on the bottom and the thick white dragon scaling on top. I was talking of the coloration name itself, not that there can't be blue dragon scales in general but there can't be a Blue Dragon that has blue fins and the white dragon scaling on top as a Black Dragon would or a Red Dragon, Orange Dragon, etc., because blue would be on top and it would even trump the variation of white if I am understanding correctly. Does that make more sense now or am I digging a deeper hole for myself? lol

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Leopards: 1:4 Hawkeye, Luna, Astrael, Dorian, Cullen
Gargoyle: Cloudjumper and Toothless
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post #16 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 07:35 PM
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Lol. Ok, I understand what you're talking about. Yes, no true blue dragons. Marbled dragons, yes but none will have the cleanish break that the other dragons do.

White and blue operate on the same skin layer.
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post #17 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-08-2014, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Okay! Phew, thought I was going crazy for a moment! Hmm, if white and blue operate on the same layer, why can't we breed Blue Dragon's? Or do they not operate equally and blue is just more dominant than white, which is what I suspect but I don't know for sure? Or perhaps we've tried but none have been successful as of yet?

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Leopards: 1:4 Hawkeye, Luna, Astrael, Dorian, Cullen
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post #18 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-09-2014, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sathori View Post
I often "hide" my favourites behind the others so that I have time to debate in my head whether or not my husband would kill me if I brought home another. Having five tanks in the small apartment does not make much sense to him already, can't imagine having 6+ xD
Haha!! I used 2 hide the ones I like 2... But the staff at my LFS all know I will most likely come back for them now, and lock them in the office, away from prying eyes, lol!! I'm in the same boat as u w/ multiple tanks... And my mother-in-law is starting to complain about all the fish! I'm so glad I'm not the only betta lover that's passion defies all reason ! That's y I love this forum so much... Everyone here shares the same love for bettas as me!

HUNKAPEI.... We are all related -GaWani PonyBoy, Native American horse trainer & True Natural Horsemanship advocate. ~R.I.P. Poisson <3
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post #19 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-09-2014, 05:26 AM
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very interesting thread, I loved the orange hm dragon, and lovely clear eyes. Don't see many with eyes that clear on AB
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post #20 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-09-2014, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilnaugrim View Post
Okay! Phew, thought I was going crazy for a moment! Hmm, if white and blue operate on the same layer, why can't we breed Blue Dragon's? Or do they not operate equally and blue is just more dominant than white, which is what I suspect but I don't know for sure? Or perhaps we've tried but none have been successful as of yet?
I suspect it has to do with the fact that we've never seen multicolored blues like a steel blue body and royal blue/turquoise fins. The fact that there is only one gene responsible for blue yields only one type of color. The marble gene might operate similar to a calico cat though the genes activate/deactivate over a given period of time. Royal blue is heterozygous dominant which is how can find metallic bettas with white, turquoise/green, and royal blue all on the same body. In contrast, there's steel blue, which I believe is recessive so you won't get variance in blues there.

There is a possibility of creating real blue dragons in theory, but it cannot be done the traditional way via breeding. This alternate method to achieve blue dragons will most likely require the creation of chimeras.
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