What if someday.... - Page 3 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #21 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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No I want a mini VT!

5G - 1 betta: orange dalmatian VT male "Ty"
29G - 1 orange fantail goldfish "Goldeen"
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post #22 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVampire181 View Post
Wilds are sooo tiny :D I want some imbellis so bad lol.
You've obviously never had to wrestle a full-grown unimaculata or strohi back into its tank before then haha.

I hate purposefully deformed fish like balloon rams and balloon mollies, which is essentially the same thing as what you are describing here. It cannot be healthy for animals to be so compressed. Surely, there has to be some kind of organ displacement going on.


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post #23 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LittleBettaFish View Post
You've obviously never had to wrestle a full-grown unimaculata or strohi back into its tank before then haha.

I hate purposefully deformed fish like balloon rams and balloon mollies, which is essentially the same thing as what you are describing here. It cannot be healthy for animals to be so compressed. Surely, there has to be some kind of organ displacement going on.

All modern Betta's are some kind of deformity and not natural selection. I'm sure anything harmful will make the fish less likely to survive and therefore not likely to reproduce.
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post #24 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 07:35 PM
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Don't those short bodies have something to do with crossing double tails?

taking a break from fish-keeping.
3 lovely male betta still keep me company.
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post #25 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 07:38 PM
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What is your definition of a "modern", and natural betta? Without your full opinion your above post makes little or no sense, due to the amount of wild bettas still available in Thailand, A wild B. Splendens most likely will not have any deformity and will also be as close to a wild specimen that you could possibly attain. There are also wild type color bettas which is what I would define as a natural selection, once again you need to define a natural Betta as some people are clueless to any other type of Betta than the domesticated type with multiple colors, and long fins. I would classify baloon rams and mollies as badly bred fish due to the common deformities along with the shortened lifespan, growth, and ability to get sick easily. Where as a Domesticated colorful Betta has no heightened advers effects, the only noticable one that I have encountered between types is activity, due to the length of the fins. Little Betta fish is a very experienced member, so her information is very valued. Her post was correct, baloon mollies, and others a deformed ad affected greatly negatively by it, while your post seems to be not a very informative, correct one


Last edited by Mo; 04-07-2012 at 07:43 PM.
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post #26 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffegg2 View Post
All modern Betta's are some kind of deformity and not natural selection. I'm sure anything harmful will make the fish less likely to survive and therefore not likely to reproduce.
Breeding for longer pectoral or caudal fins is not going to adversely affect the health of the fish unless it is taken to the extreme.

The basic shape of a betta has remained pretty much the same. I have wild bettas and comparing them side-by-side with my domesticated splendens, I can still tell they belong to the same species.

By shortening the body, you would undoubtedly be selecting for all the attributes that a responsible breeder normally culls for. It would take a lot of ruthless culling to produce a consistent line of shorter-bodied fish, and I assume a number of those fish culled would have severe enough deformities that they could not be passed onto pet homes.

The trouble with domesticity is that we have removed the need for natural selection. Therefore, these fish can continue to propagate, and continue to pass on their 'bad' genes to future generations.

It's like how the fins of a swallowtail male guppy prevent him from being able to spawn. In the wild this gene would probably have died out, or become much scarcer, but by crossing a normal finned male onto a swallowtail female, we are able to keep the swallowtail gene in existence.


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post #27 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 09:05 PM
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Just thought I'd go on and make the comparison to French/English bulldogs. These dogs are so deformed in their structure that you literally have to lift one onto the other to breed them. Their heaviness and leg structure make it literally impossible for them to swim, something all dogs should naturally do. People are starting to say that breeding these dogs is cruel due to their deformities, and that the breed should be left to die out ;(
Breeding for deformities exists in many domestic animals, from fish to dogs, to chickens that grow too fast for their skeletons to develop. People want what suits their fancy and don't care what the animals quality of life is.

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post #28 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-08-2012, 02:08 PM
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Not to mention English bulldogs cannot naturally give birth either, always c-section. Something messed up there! :/

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post #29 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-08-2012, 04:35 PM
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Yep. Lots of brachy (short faced), and overly large dogs have short (as low as 6 years for Irish wolfhounds) life spans, just like balloon fish. Food for thought? :)

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post #30 of 55 (permalink) Old 04-08-2012, 06:18 PM
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In the End all domesticit Breeds of Dogs/cats and fish and so much more are deformities that people have breed, to fit there wants. some things to keep in mind about trying to Breed a evolution in a animal is WHY you ARE doing it? My Family has bin breeding Mastiffs For hunting for years and we look at each dog an we look for making the biggest strongest dogs we can but we look at how each gene helps the dog. The problum starts when breeders startbreeding for VANITY it is what has happen to the Bulldog and thats sad that a once great dog (they were at one time great hog/bull fighters) is now in a painfull, disgraceful shape all for VANITY. I love my bettas and i love my dogs. so ill end this rant with this pls when you breed breed for the helth and streanght of the animal not just for Vanity.

Ther is nothing on tv... time to watch the fish tank. Bettas hours of fun.
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