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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 12:59 AM
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And no, I am not talking 'stuck up' I am telling you my point for dog training classes. Teaching a dog to fetch, bark at intruders, sit, etc are very simple tasks.

My point is it takes something extra to produce a dog willing to act on your command under any circumstance, be able to calm themselves, be socially friendly to everyone and everything, and be able to act appropriately.

So if you dare try and come back at that with more of what your dogs can do YOU ARE MISSING MY POINT YET AGAIN. Instead, re-read my posts and instead of feeling offended consider a precautions point of view from a serious and legitament stand point rather me 'attacking' you. This is ridiculous.

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 01:16 AM
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I was in no way attacking Abby. Yes, you have every choice to buy a dog, but it is ridiculous to say 'purebred' when the dog is clearly not.

I don't know where you live, but shelters here are full of amazing dogs. Amazing. Most are dropped off because owners are moving or lack of money because of recession. Most shelters, from what I've seen, are like this. The pound, humane society, etc are generally filled with crappy dogs. But local small organizations (can be found through petfinder) are chalked full of 'em.

No, I was not trying to be rude, Abby just assumed I was because someone wasn't totally agreeing with her about all of this. I do find Abby to be a great forum member and knowledgeable about bettas. I never said anything against her, to bash her, and never 'attacked'/called her names.

What I said was serious. And I still HIGHLY disagree with keeping the dog outside... Australia is extremely hot. It is not a place for a house dog to be 'chilling' outside... if you cannot keep it inside, why get one? What is such the hurry? I do not find anything wrong with keeping dogs outside if there is a specific purpose and in appropriate climate. From what I understand you want the dog outside because your dad(?) does not want it inside? That is not a purpose.

Why should I abandon this thread when you are the one choosing not to read my post fully and rather skim it taking things out of contex and twist it to being demeaning?

Can I also ask why you are feeling the need to prove yourself to me? I don't care, and honestly if you really have everything worked out you could've replied 'thanks for the input but I have that thought out and covered and we'd be good.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 07:43 AM
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Yes, I've read your posts, and no, I didn't "skim" through them.
I'm getting tired of this. OK, yes, I see you have valid points. I AGREE WITH THEM. But, I have my points as well.
I have my opinion, and you have yours. Abby never assumed anything. I came, I read what you wrote, and I found it rude. You could have been much nicer about your opinions, instead of shoving them at her like she was a total idiot. Instead of saying "I think it's a stupid, ignorant, careless idea." you could have said "Abby, I don't think you should breed the dog if you get it. A Pit Bull isn't a real breed, so it can't be pure bred. Why don't you go to your local shelter and see if there is a dog there you would want." I agree there is no such breed as a pit bull, and yes, calling one "Pure Bred" is stupid. I also agree that yes, puppy classes can be good in certain cases, but you can just as easily train a dog yourself if you take the time to do it properly, and take the time to put your dog in situations were they need to focus on its owner.

Yeah, well I don't live "here" where you live. I live in a relatively small town, where shelters are few and far between. So I don't have as many options as other people do. Petfinder is pretty useless to me, as whenever I use it, maybe two actual Canadian dogs pop up MAX and they are halfway across the province. Petfinder is generally filled with American shelters.

Can I also ask why you are feeling the need to prove yourself to me?

'thanks for the input but I have that thought out and covered
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-31-2011, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by laughing View Post
I was in no way attacking Abby. Yes, you have every choice to buy a dog, but it is ridiculous to say 'purebred' when the dog is clearly not.

I don't know where you live, but shelters here are full of amazing dogs. Amazing. Most are dropped off because owners are moving or lack of money because of recession. Most shelters, from what I've seen, are like this. The pound, humane society, etc are generally filled with crappy dogs. But local small organizations (can be found through petfinder) are chalked full of 'em.

No, I was not trying to be rude, Abby just assumed I was because someone wasn't totally agreeing with her about all of this. I do find Abby to be a great forum member and knowledgeable about bettas. I never said anything against her, to bash her, and never 'attacked'/called her names.

What I said was serious. And I still HIGHLY disagree with keeping the dog outside... Australia is extremely hot. It is not a place for a house dog to be 'chilling' outside... if you cannot keep it inside, why get one? What is such the hurry? I do not find anything wrong with keeping dogs outside if there is a specific purpose and in appropriate climate. From what I understand you want the dog outside because your dad(?) does not want it inside? That is not a purpose.

Why should I abandon this thread when you are the one choosing not to read my post fully and rather skim it taking things out of contex and twist it to being demeaning?

Can I also ask why you are feeling the need to prove yourself to me? I don't care, and honestly if you really have everything worked out you could've replied 'thanks for the input but I have that thought out and covered and we'd be good.


A) the first and second dogs were pure bred, the staffy wasnt papered but both the parents WERE. the blue heeler was also papered and registered.

B) I have oly been given permission to have a dog for three weeks, but have been searching for over 6 months knowing if i found a dog then it was just a matter of asking.

C) Yes it does get hot in summer, and it gets cold in winter, but that is what kennels and bedding are for.
The two big dogs have kennels and beds, the kennels never get used thats where i have Kobi's run set up so he can use the kennels, the big dogs prefer the beds under the house.

Also the ill behaved dog is a pure staffy that is NOT my dog, there for the decision for his socialization was NOT in my hands. It is my partners dads dog, if it were up to him the dog would never leave the house because HE doesnt walk the dog he doesnt like taking the dog in the car (he gets car sick, even if hes not fed since the night before he still gets sick).
Weather permitting i walk the staffy every day, some days the walks are just to the shop up the road other days they are 1-3 km and thats NOT my dog. i also walked the two big dogs a lot but tey are too old to go far these days.

Kobi is well socilized he greets everyone with a lick and a squirm even other dogs he just wants to play.


thanks for your input but its covered.

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-01-2011, 11:57 PM
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Holy mackerel, what a thread! We saved a dog from going to the pound once. A neighbor didn't want him anymore so my dad said we'd take him. He was the best dog we ever had. I don't think there is any reason to take a dog to training classes if you know how to train them yourself. If I ever get a dog I'll get a purebred one from a reputable breeder but I would take mine to training classes because I don't think I could do it myself.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-03-2011, 03:50 PM
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@Laughing

There is no need to bite Abby's head off. OK, you may not be directly attacking her. You're just being over-blunt, aggressive, and, if I'm honest, a little rude. You have taken this too far. You could've simply replied by pointing out facts and advice in a civil manner.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-03-2011, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by laughing View Post
Seriously, are you even reading my posts?

I did not say training was difficult. I am a dog trainer, I have never had a problem training any dog, it is very easy and comes natural to me. It isn't rocket science.

Dog obedience classes are for making friends, socialization, relieving boredom, etc.

I am talking about being good with all ethnicities of people, being good with machinery, loud noises, and learning the ability to calm themselves. I am talking about being dog friendly towards all dogs (which yours obviously aren't from other posts) and more.

My girl was trained beautifully. Came on a dime even with distractions, sat and stayed in the middle of busy pet stores minus the leash and me out of view, got along with every single dog, knew over 50 commands, etc. She was trained for her CG_ and to be a therapy dog. So no, I don't have trouble with this. And yes, the socialization and consistency of going to class with the distractions helped her become that.

THAT'S what I am saying.
I agree with everything you have said so far. Deaf dogs are harder to train, plain and simple. Deaf working dogs that are high energy are even harder to train.

Not all dogs can be trained using the same methods. That is why each person you talk to is going to claim that their method of training is the right way or that it is easy to train dogs. Actual certified dog trainers go case by case when working with their clients.

Also no dog should be kept outside all day long, especially a deaf working dog that lived in a house. This will lead to serious behavior problems (digging, barking, aggression ect..)

Breeding dogs with no background knowledge on genetics or the pedigree of that animal is irresponsible. Why? Because you could get a litter full of birth defects. To bring a litter into this world without being 99% sure that they will be healthy is cruel.

And no animal will ever just cost you just $300 or just initial cost. My dog, from a breeder, cost me $300 first, but then for all the supplies, vet visits, and licenses he actually cost me $1000. I adopted a kitten for $50, two weeks later she got an abdominal hernia and I wound up spending over $1000 just on vet care.

I love dogs. I want to become a shelter vet and I also volunteer at my local animal control in the clinic. Right now most of the animals they get in are Staffys, most of them get a month and then they are euthinized. The shelter has very limited room and is high intake. Breeding more Staffys, because they " are blue-blood" or whatever is irresponsible, just like laughing said. Shelters are full of them.

Also getting a dog from a breeder is fine. As long as they are a reputable one. That means all the parents have their eyes, hips,and elbows checked by a vet, the parents pedigrees are known, the breeder shows their dogs, the breeder breeds for health and not looks, the breeders knows their breed inside and out, the breeder knows the genetics of their breed, the breeder will take back their dogs (better if they require you to if you can't keep them), the breeder plans litters a head of time, and the breeder keeps their litters till they are 12 weeks old.

I could go on and on, but I will spare you because I feel like laughing already touched base on mostly everything. And also because you already got the dog and none of this matters anymore
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-03-2011, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Abby View Post
A) the first and second dogs were pure bred, the staffy wasnt papered but both the parents WERE. the blue heeler was also papered and registered.

B) I have oly been given permission to have a dog for three weeks, but have been searching for over 6 months knowing if i found a dog then it was just a matter of asking.

C) Yes it does get hot in summer, and it gets cold in winter, but that is what kennels and bedding are for.
The two big dogs have kennels and beds, the kennels never get used thats where i have Kobi's run set up so he can use the kennels, the big dogs prefer the beds under the house.

Also the ill behaved dog is a pure staffy that is NOT my dog, there for the decision for his socialization was NOT in my hands. It is my partners dads dog, if it were up to him the dog would never leave the house because HE doesnt walk the dog he doesnt like taking the dog in the car (he gets car sick, even if hes not fed since the night before he still gets sick).
Weather permitting i walk the staffy every day, some days the walks are just to the shop up the road other days they are 1-3 km and thats NOT my dog. i also walked the two big dogs a lot but tey are too old to go far these days.

Kobi is well socilized he greets everyone with a lick and a squirm even other dogs he just wants to play.


thanks for your input but its covered.
C) Kennels will not protect a dog from below freezing temps or very high temps (100 or above). Kennels will also not protect them from tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, or blizzards. Also dogs do better inside, because dogs are pack animals and they need their pack. Being alone outside all day exposed to the elements isn't fun, even with a kennel, blankets, or other dogs.

In general most young dogs are well socialized, But leaving that dog outside all day can make him unsocialized.
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-04-2011, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Garth13 View Post
C) Kennels will not protect a dog from below freezing temps or very high temps (100 or above). Kennels will also not protect them from tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, or blizzards. Also dogs do better inside, because dogs are pack animals and they need their pack. Being alone outside all day exposed to the elements isn't fun, even with a kennel, blankets, or other dogs.

In general most young dogs are well socialized, But leaving that dog outside all day can make him unsocialized.
I have to agree with this. Especially since my dog was probably chained outside almost all his life. His fur had been hit with water so many times touches of it were spotted white is if he had been hit with bleach and his ear had an injury in it that's healed up a year ago. I know you'll take better care of your dog but I don't think it's fair to the animal especially since there's laws that state in the summer dogs can only spend a certian amount of time in the heat.

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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-04-2011, 07:02 AM
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I'm not taking any "side" in this post, but I'd like to say a couple things. I'm originally from northern Indiana and know how cold "cold" can be sometimes. I have lived in the desert in Las Vegas, and I know how hot "hot" can be sometimes. I now live in Australia and know how things are here. So, having that little bit of insight on both sides of this discussion and being neutral to both sides... I can see and understand both "sides" here and can see where the points are and also the misunderstandings... in my opinion. That's as far as I'll go as I'd like to remain neutral. :)

Anyway.... mostly what I'd like to address is the feeling that dog training classes are not necessary/needed/important. These classes don't necessarily have to be conducted by "professionals" and aren't necessarily expensive. I happen to be a trainer at one of the 2 dog obedience clubs that I am a member. They are clubs, run by and training done by the members that volunteer their time, and we pay minimal club dues each year. Now, although the training is not done by "professional" dog trainers, (though one of the trainers/club members IS actually a professional trainer as well as an obedience trial judge) we have a high level of knowledge & experience in our trainers. I am one of the club's trainers and like to consider myself one of these with this high level of knowledge. The clubs I belong to (both are "country" clubs... nowhere near a "big" city... but not as bad as "BFE") are great for socializing our dogs, great for exchanging information with other members, great for asking for help on any issues, great for meeting people and making friends, and plain just great FUN and a good day out with your dog! I have also trained my own dogs (current one I'm working with is a shelter pup that was a "stray") to a high level in obedience & agility (we compete at trials in both and most of their training was done by me at home, but "proofed" at the club) as well as "trick" training (and not talking just roll over, speak, etc... more like jumping rope, for example) and a large assortment of behaviours .... behaviours that aren't really cute or useful, but just for something to teach him (ie. look up, nod, silent bark, etc.) to keep both of our minds working and to keep our bond.

But, "training" a dog does not just involve toilet training, sitting/lying down when told, etc. A VERY important aspect of training is socialization (with other people and dogs) AND having the dog experience a huge variety of other stimuli & situations which it would not get by the majority of it's training done just at home. In Australia, there are some parts that are very remote and many SMALL towns. So, I suppose it would be possible for many dog owners to not have easy access to professional trainers, classes, nor even dog clubs nearby (talking HOURS away possibly... one of the clubs I attend is 1 and a half hours each way). So, home training is all that's practical. But, I guess what I'm TRYING to say in all of this, is that training classes (in whatever form... professional, expensive or cheap, clubs, or even neighbours getting together!) IS a very important part of a dogs training to live in this world for the majority of people and their situations. And it doesn't have to be expensive, nor a big deal. But, there absolutely 100% definitely IS a lot to be GAINED from attending some form of "class". Not that a dog or it's owner would be negligent or bad or anything close to this for not going, but to not attend some "class" if you can, choosing to NOT do any further training, that would just be a waste of knowledge & fun & time with your companion!

So, I'm SO VERY sorry (lol) to have gone on so long, but I'm very passionate about spending time with my dog and I know the benefits to be had by ANY extra training. So to say that "classes" are not needed/necessary/etc. is such a shame.

disclaimer: I'm not pickin' on nobody! :) Just promoting extra stuff with your dogs! (sigh of relief heard over the forum.... she's done!)

Julie

Last edited by LeroyTheBetta; 06-04-2011 at 07:16 AM.
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