Koi...being bullies? - Page 3 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 11:12 PM
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Miah sorry if this seems harsh, but you don't seem to know about goldfish secreting growth stunting hormones, so I'd say that no, you are not an expert.
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 11:13 PM
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no comment.
But....LOL

Just because I don't type with candy and rainbows doesn't mean I'm being mean.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-25-2011, 11:46 PM
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Not to be rude but if you're an expert Miah, then why is your goldfish in an aquarium that is too small for him?
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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I'm all for hearing more advice from as many people as possible. Anything anyone can teach me is always a big help. To be honest, a lot of the koi/goldfish stuff is overwhelming, it would be great to have more people chime in
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 03:27 PM
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I shall impart my knowledge then. Some of them are more obvious to others, but I'll just type everything:

- Goldfish are cold water fish; Ideal being 68-72F or 20-22C
- They NEED a filter that can filter the entire volume 10 times in one hour. So if you have a 20 gallon tank, you need a filter that is rated for 200gph.
- They need either a large surface area (so a pond) or have an aerator to dissolve oxygen into the water. This is also why they are cold water fish, as cold water is capable of dissolving more oxygen than warm water
Their colours are similar to how people tan in the sun. If you leave them in the dark they will eventually turn into this pearly grey colour. Giving them some sun and proper lighting is important for activity levels and feeding.
They will destroy a lot of live plants either from eating them or uprooting so fake plants or very broad leafed plants (i.e. Anubias) are better.

Feeding
-They are omnivorous so they eat plant matter and crustaceans/insects
-they are also like bettas; opportunistic eaters and will eat everything available
-you can tell that they are being overfed if you see the classic “poop dangling from their anus”
-Overfeeding them will cause their digestion to accelerate and cause more poop and ammonia to be produced because they DO NOT HAVE A STOMACH.

Tankmates
-Generally, none. Having an all-goldfish tank has a higher success
-Plecos and larger snails will eventually end up sucking slime coat off of your goldfish and cause it harm
-smaller snails are much better if you insist on having snails, but they may get eaten by larger goldfish

Sexing Goldfish
-unless they are at sexual maturity, it is very difficult to sex them.
-Males have thicker end rays on their pectoral fins (the ray closest to the front of the fish) and appear to be stiffer
-Males will also have “breeding stars” on the side of their gills which are little bumps. These bumps may also be present on their pectoral fins


I believe that answered most of the questions presented. The reason why they need a large tank is because they secrete both ammonia and stunting hormone which will dramatically reduce the quality of life of the goldfish. Considering the fish in question is a fancy/ryukin/fantail, I think 20-30 gallons with a high gph-rated filter should be fine. Keep the decorations to a minimum so he'll have room to swim. Bare bottom tank would be fine, too. While they appreciate some cover like most fish, they tend to get stuck sometimes. Use a testing kit to determine water changes :P

Water Chemistry Basics
Beginner Tank Size Guide
GUIDE: Tank Cyling/Nitrogen Cycle [With Pictures]


Too many people have opinions on things they know nothing about. And the more ignorant they are, the more opinions they have.

Last edited by bahamut285; 10-26-2011 at 03:30 PM.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 06:16 PM
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Also, Lupin raises goldfish and has even done surgery on one of them and it was successful.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-03-2011, 08:06 AM
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Hi,

Would rather get to the point and answer the first post asked by the OP.

I would advise against combining kois and fancy goldfish (those considered less adept at eluding harassments form tankmates). All round bodied goldfish especially those with double tails in general fit the criteria of being incompatible with koi. Kois are absolutely boisterous and are not easily tolerated by the much slower counterparts. Fancy goldfish are also quite prone to internal injuries when crashed on repeatedly by their tankmates.

I've already seen countless cases of fancy goldfish, most especially with ryukins ending up battered badly. Bloodshot fins, fins shredded until only wisps are left visible, loss of swimming balance due to swim bladder injuries. All of these often lead to death. Once this happens, I doubt you'll have a chance reversing the impact. Some tried saving their fish but it is always too late.

As for sexing the goldfish, never squeeze the fish. I dunno where the advice that squeezing is permissible came from. Unless you are really sure of what you are doing, don't. You're only injuring the fish. I don't bother with determining their sexes a lot. It eventually shows up. Male goldfish will always exhibit white spots on their gill covers and front rays of their pectoral fins during courting stage. Females tend to be slightly rounder with a more pronounced vent.

Hope this helps.

P.S. DQ, I just happened to drop by since I was in the mood to help. I've simply been busy with my duty and working out constantly since I'm preparing for my modeling career. Hehe...

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Last edited by Lupin; 11-03-2011 at 08:25 AM.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-03-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahamut285 View Post
- Goldfish are cold water fish; Ideal being 68-72F or 20-22C
This has always been a point of debate in some instances. It just so happens that where the goldfish was bred and reared, the temp range mentioned does not always apply. Fancy goldfish are less hardy compared to their singletail counterparts. Singletails tend to tolerate cooler temperature better than the fancies.

Quote:
Their colours are similar to how people tan in the sun. If you leave them in the dark they will eventually turn into this pearly grey colour. Giving them some sun and proper lighting is important for activity levels and feeding.
This is not always the norm. They tend to simply get lighter in color with inadequate exposure to sunlight and presence of nutritious foods combined. Intense colors are much more achievable in outdoor ponds although I do not advise that the pond be exposed to direct sunlight all day since the increasing temperature will also deplete them their oxygen and suffocate them.

Quote:
-Overfeeding them will cause their digestion to accelerate and cause more poop and ammonia to be produced because they DO NOT HAVE A STOMACH.
I don't understand what you mean by "overfeeding them will cause their digestion to accelerate".

It is more preferable to simply give your goldfish 4-5 small meals a day than 2-3 large meals a day. Large meals can cause digestive upsets. They are prone to constipation when the foods cannot be dislodged out of the tract. This is more common with round bodied fancies whose digestive system is already squashed up inside due to their unusual body shape.


Quote:
-Plecos and larger snails will eventually end up sucking slime coat off of your goldfish and cause it harm
-smaller snails are much better if you insist on having snails, but they may get eaten by larger goldfish
I beg to differ. No problems combining bristlenose plecos, apple snails and nerite snails with goldfish. This is really a blanket statement. Not all plecos and snails are that bad. A lot of cases involving plecos appear to be because the plecos are not getting their proper nourishment. Most people view them as nothing but poop cleaners. Bristlenose plecos, on the other hand, do not look for protein to nourish themselves. They are herbivores by nature and will prefer to eat greens although a few still relish meaty foods. Does not mean they are absolutely incompatible with goldfish.

Quote:
I believe that answered most of the questions presented. The reason why they need a large tank is because they secrete both ammonia and stunting hormone which will dramatically reduce the quality of life of the goldfish. Considering the fish in question is a fancy/ryukin/fantail, I think 20-30 gallons with a high gph-rated filter should be fine. Keep the decorations to a minimum so he'll have room to swim. Bare bottom tank would be fine, too. While they appreciate some cover like most fish, they tend to get stuck sometimes. Use a testing kit to determine water changes :P
Growth hormones are released in response to stress. Unless the deficiencies resulting in stress are corrected, the fish is unlikely to have a chance to grow especially if the stressors are present for a long period of time. The hormones can be removed by balancing the act, remove the stressors themselves and doing water changes. This may give the fish a chance to continue its growing phase but for long periods, the fish in question tend to be smaller than it should have been if it were not for the hormone release.

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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-03-2011, 11:39 AM
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Thanks for stopping by, Lupin. I believe we need a lesson on goldfish 101 here. lol
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-03-2011, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, I pretty much assumed that would be the final answer. Thanks a ton for stopping by and helping out. Now I just gotta convince the parents to let me take the koi in the house and get a tank for it.

So, if I were to get a 30 gallon tank, what filter would I want for a single fancy gold fish?

And what is a 'small' meal if doing 4-5 meals a day?

So they are less hardy--what temperature range best suits them? Our home is kept at either 72 or 70 degrees, dropped to 68 at night. Will I need a heater?
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