What did goldfish come from? - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-02-2012, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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What did goldfish come from?

What fish were the domestic household goldfish created from? Pictures would be great...

5G - 1 betta: orange dalmatian VT male "Ty"
29G - 1 orange fantail goldfish "Goldeen"
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 12:19 AM
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Goldfish were domesticated around a 1000 years ago in China. Their placement in the taxonomy of the carps from that region is still under debate. At one time Carassius auratus was thought to have two subspecies: C. a. auratus (the domestic goldfish) and C. a. gibelio (Prussian carp). But in my recent search of fishbase.org it appears the two have been split into separate species. Carassius auratus auratus, Goldfish and Carassius gibelio, Prussian carp This makes the Prussian Carp the closest wild relative to the goldfish (much as wolves are to domesticated dogs).

Wikipedia also has a rather nice article complete with ample citations on the domestication of goldfish: Gold fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

---Izzy

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekoimaiden View Post
Goldfish were domesticated around a 1000 years ago in China. Their placement in the taxonomy of the carps from that region is still under debate. At one time Carassius auratus was thought to have two subspecies: C. a. auratus (the domestic goldfish) and C. a. gibelio (Prussian carp). But in my recent search of fishbase.org it appears the two have been split into separate species. Carassius auratus auratus, Goldfish and Carassius gibelio, Prussian carp This makes the Prussian Carp the closest wild relative to the goldfish (much as wolves are to domesticated dogs).

Wikipedia also has a rather nice article complete with ample citations on the domestication of goldfish: Gold fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Oh okay. Yeah I was basically asking:
Dog is to wolf as goldfish is to ______

BTW thanks for helping me out so much today!

5G - 1 betta: orange dalmatian VT male "Ty"
29G - 1 orange fantail goldfish "Goldeen"
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 12:59 AM
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Yep. That's a great way of putting it. Prussian carp are actually kinda ugly like many other carp species. Wild koi are rather unattractive, too.

You're welcome! Goldfish are some of my favorite fish, and I love spreading proper goldfish care! They are very rewarding if given the right care.

---Izzy

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thekoimaiden View Post
Yep. That's a great way of putting it. Prussian carp are actually kinda ugly like many other carp species. Wild koi are rather unattractive, too.

You're welcome! Goldfish are some of my favorite fish, and I love spreading proper goldfish care! They are very rewarding if given the right care.
Yeah! I would like to keep goldfish someday when I can afford a 55gal tank....

Now....dog is to wolf as betta is to _______ (link to picture or just picture??)

5G - 1 betta: orange dalmatian VT male "Ty"
29G - 1 orange fantail goldfish "Goldeen"
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 01:34 AM
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I'd actually go larger than a 55 gal. My biggest regret is not starting off with a 75 gal and a canister filter. They are quieter and more efficient than HOB filters. Plus a larger tank means more goldies.

Wild Betta splendens? I can't help you there. I haven't done the research into it; I just know that they are pretty far removed from their wild ancestors. I think there is a user here who keeps wild bettas, and she'll know more about it than me.

---Izzy

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Oh okay. I will post that question as a new thread in the betta chat :). And I will wait till I can afford a 75 gal and canister filter before i think about adopting some goldfish :).

5G - 1 betta: orange dalmatian VT male "Ty"
29G - 1 orange fantail goldfish "Goldeen"
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 02:11 AM
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It's well worth the investment. They typically live 10-15 years with the right care. I think the oldest on record is something like 25 years old.

---Izzy

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 04:42 AM
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Dog is to wolf as betta spledens is to betta splendens.

Grey wolves have been domesticated for tens of thousands of years and goldfish for 1 or 2 thousand....perhaps even enough time to speciate, but interbreeding still happens...."mules" are usually created, but not always!!

However it's only been 150-200 years that betta splendens have been domesticated and "speciation" (the divergence into a new species) most likely has not happened.

Last edited by fishy goings on; 04-03-2012 at 04:49 AM.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-03-2012, 04:47 AM
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Life of a goldfish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thekoimaiden View Post
It's well worth the investment. They typically live 10-15 years with the right care. I think the oldest on record is something like 25 years old.
The longest lived goldfish is actually 48-49 years and still flapping!!

25-30 is average for a well cared for fish.

Will see if I can find a link/paper to back-up my claim, but I know it to be true.
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