*RESCUED* White Cloud Mountain Minnow - Page 2 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-04-2012, 10:36 PM
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75F is probably the closest you will get to a happy medium in that tank. If you look at those two links above (both cite scientific sources; I also know the author of one and he doesn't write anything that isn't supported by science or years of empirical observation), you will see that they require at least 20 gallons as they like to be in large groups and need ample swimming room. A 24" tank is a 20 gal. A 20 long would be preferred. So congrats on the second tank. Craigslist is a good place to find cheap used tanks.
I'm with KoiMaiden on tank width and temperature. Would it be ok to keep them in something that has a 24 inch footprint but doesn't hold the full 20 gallons, or do they have a relatively high bioload for their size? What's it comparable to?

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-04-2012, 10:37 PM
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IMO minnows seem pretty comparable to danios. :/

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-04-2012, 11:09 PM
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IMO minnows seem pretty comparable to danios. :/
They are. Both danio and WCMM are cyprinids. But cyprinidae is the largest freshwater fish familes and includes such monsters as koi, grass carp, giant barbs, and silver carp (ie those jumping fish that invaded the Mississippi). I know koi and goldfish have a pretty heavy bioload, but they are also pretty robust fish. I'm not sure if this heavy bioload extends to all cyprinids. All I know is that they need large swimming room, so go for a longer tank over a taller one. They probably could live in less than 20 gallons if the tank was long enough (if memory serves me right I have seen tanks like this before), but more water volume is always better as it holds a more steady temperature and water parameters. A 40 breeder would be a great size for a good school of these.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2012, 03:26 AM
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I don't know about keeping them as PETS, but my lfs has these guys as feeder fish, i got a dozen and put them in my 30long for Toothless (my axolotl) to eat, and his tank is not heated at all, it stays between 63-66 through the day, and they are so active and fast he just cant catch them. Its been two weeks, and i still have a dozen WCMMs. Lol!! So i got him some rosy red minnows to eat instead, and they are either just slower swimmers, or dumb, because those didn't even last a week. Guess i have a school of WCMMs now. And yes, i feed them gold fish flakes.

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2012, 03:55 AM
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Don't like to "jump in, interject and such"-- but I could use advice in similar situation. Five days ago I bought a 55 gallon tank and along with it came an assortment of fish... including four of these same "cloud minnows". I didn't like them at first, but they have colored up and I like their ways now. Except the mature Serpaes and Black veils have a hard time getting enough to eat.(Tetras). Anyway, I see I should put them in a bigger tank too. I can put them in a 29 along with three mature cories or a 35 with two smallish goldfish. And I think I should get 4-5 more? Being in Florida I'll probably be running the air conditioner more than I want this summer! Which tank..uh?
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2012, 05:08 AM
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Aren't we keeping the fish in an aquarium? So, didn't you just kill your own argument...?
No. A longer life does not equate a better life. Longer life is more appealing to someone with an aquarium because, well, the fish is alive longer. That is it.

You can keep frogs alive almost twice as long by lowering their temperature - but they lose out on activity, do not mate, and don't grow as much. People wouldn't do this with frogs as the difference is more obvious...
However, when it comes to fish, it is alright to give them a less natural life (year round low temperatures) instead of a more natural pattern of seasonal fluctuation because it keeps them alive longer.

You can also keep dogs and cats alive longer by feeding them a very very low calorie diet (near starving) and providing daily stress to stimulate survival responses. It has also been shown that horses kept indoors have a longer lifespan than those allowed to romp in fields and enjoy themselves. But would you do this? Fish fall closer to decoration than pet - especially when it comes to very small schoaling fish like the WCMM - so a long life tends to be favored over a natural and healthy life for the fish.

I have never suggested it would be good to keep them at a high temperature year round. What I am saying is that a high temperature year round is not going to be any worse than a low temperature year round because they live in a seasonal environment. The optimal is a set up where the temperature fluctuates with the seasons - low in winter, high in summer.

I will stick with Chinese (their native country) and Japanese breeding information on them. I take the same stance with goldfish - all the western information says they need to be in low temperature tanks all the time... When the actual breeders in China and Japan breed them in tanks that fluctuate with the seasons, going up to around 30C in the summer.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Jim Dandy View Post
Don't like to "jump in, interject and such"-- but I could use advice in similar situation. Five days ago I bought a 55 gallon tank and along with it came an assortment of fish... including four of these same "cloud minnows". I didn't like them at first, but they have colored up and I like their ways now. Except the mature Serpaes and Black veils have a hard time getting enough to eat.(Tetras). Anyway, I see I should put them in a bigger tank too. I can put them in a 29 along with three mature cories or a 35 with two smallish goldfish. And I think I should get 4-5 more? Being in Florida I'll probably be running the air conditioner more than I want this summer! Which tank..uh?
I'm a little confused as to what is where. I think you'll get a better response if you just start your own thread in the "Freshwater and Tropical Fish Forum." It seems like you have a lot more going on than just the White Cloud Minnows.

---Izzy

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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2012, 02:57 PM
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In the wild, yes, the temperatures fluctuate and the temperature should gradually increase, then eventually decrease. But technically, goldfish are cold water, most minnows I know of are cold water, and tropical fish are just that. tropical. warm water. Please don't start an argument on it. I've had minnows, and danios, both of which prefered 68-75, separated from the brackish water mollies, and the fresh water tropical tank of my betta But because of where I live (Canada) the summers are drastic from the winters, therefore the tanks fluctuate on their own, with heaters to regulate the minimum heat =D

In the long run, minnows can get huge! especially mountain ones... I find a 20 is minimum for at least 4 or 5, minimum, as they can get to 4-6 inches...depending. Some don't, some do.

Breed for the breed, not for the money; the words any REAL breeder would understand.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2012, 03:40 PM
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Well it's easier to keep a steady temp.
I don't think a goldfish tank should be heated, goldfish seem to have a lot of problems with getting enough oxygen in aquariums, and raising the temp lowers the amount of oxygen water can hold. Ponds work a little different since they have large surface areas, and many have a lot of surface agitation.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2012, 03:58 PM
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I agree which is why even for a 66 gallon, I'm skipping out for goldies.

Breed for the breed, not for the money; the words any REAL breeder would understand.

You must know nothing in order to know all, for all is nothing and nothing is for all.
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