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post #81 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-18-2013, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Cut the hair. Not the tail.
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post #82 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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I made sure to ask Scott if he were okay with getting a dog, numerous times. And each time he said yes. Now I figure he is there for the "good things" like the dog wanting to be near him and nowhere near me (aka he can be walked over) and nothing else including walks, going outside, training, feeding, watering, etc.

If this stays one sided, she won't get better. And I know this. We'll work on getting her shots and such, and we'll see after that. But if I cannot rely on him, especially when I won't be able to walk her (especially winter time AND pregnant? Hell no.), or bring her outside, or any of that... Then how is this supposed to work?
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post #83 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 09:34 AM Thread Starter
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Joni mentioned she sees the beagle in the dog Great. Explains a buttload of issues, including the stubbornness, the "can walk off leash only if totally bloody exhausted, and the leash pulling. Beagles themselves need to be trained from day one, and given more than just "a lot" of exercise. I know. I've lived with one. And he was a right terror, because he was not trained fully, they half-assed it, then slacked after that. So he had full "terrorizing territory".

So now we know: German shepherd, Labrador, beagle. Personally what an awful mix x.X We have the smart, the ball chasing, and the stubborn smashed into one dog. BAH!

Anyways, along with that discovery I will also note beagles I have been around and seen looooove small things to chew. Eat. Demolish. Chase. Aka cats and even smaller dogs (hence why training at the impressionable young ages is absolutely positively without a doubt needed).

I am getting her tags today. I was going to get (reminder, dog's name is no longer "Getti") Pan's collar, but now I can't since Jim (beardie) needs a new heat lamp, since his died. I've temporarily used a household bulb, which has not needed to be used too much thanks to the boiling weather I might walk her there. Get all the piss and vinegar out, make her subjected to a foreign situation (pet store) etc.

On the note of Pan... Think she realized I've had enough. She almost tripped me (we have a step/ledge between the addition aka bootroom, and the kitchen), then almost yanked me down the stairs outside. DANGEROUS.

I hauled her back, she tried to "dominate" (standing up on two legs, bringing paws over your arms, is NOT acceptable), and I plopped her butt right back down by her scruff and just outright snapped. "I am NOT putting up with this crap anymore! ENOUGH!" And yes, I know, dogs don't understand blah blah blah, raising your voice (I was not yelling, just not using my "indoor" voice) is bad so on so forth... It wasn't even out of anger, just "fed up, had enough, sit down and shut up" kind of moment.

Well she didn't pull. And she doesn't even wait for me to "make" her sit at the door, she did it herself. And sat at the stairs. And waited for me to go up the stairs first. Then waited for me to tell her she may come in.

I do have a video for you, with me dropping the leash, outside, the same day. Not exactly sure how she extracted "I should probably stop what I am doing" from what happened.

I'll get the video up soon. You should note the posture she had (head lowered, tail lowered, looks at me a few times, etc. She didn't even hurt the cat... And really the cat instigated a lot of the possible nips she could have given x.x You'll see what I mean I don't usually say anything to her during walks, because it is obvious words were used way too much for this dog that she "tuned people out". Will probably also book her first shots (100.00) for next pay.

Last edited by Sena Hansler; 08-23-2013 at 09:37 AM.
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post #84 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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post #85 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-23-2013, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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I understand a part of what I'm going to say is due to her not being spayed, and yes, we are working on that (will be October). But in the meantime, what can we do?

I got her a large ball. Mind as well, it'll give her something to do. I roll it to her and when she realized what it was she pounced it, and then brought it over all proud and such- I go to let her "give it", and she instead locks her legs over mine and tears it from me!

Then whether or not I am facing her (I tried to "ignore" via turning away) and she jumps to MAKE you play. You know how some dogs jump on others to instigate play? That's what she is doing. With people. And in turn she has hurt me (considering her jump level is BELLY level). I took the ball away, and once it was knowingly out of the room (hiding behind you, does not work) she calmed right down.
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post #86 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-24-2013, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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So her "first off" appearance was submissive.




She's dominant. Right from a trainer who deals with dominant dogs:

"Pushing through doors, inside or outside, before you." She does it. It is still a struggle most days, except on really hot days when I still make her go for a short walk. Between the hot weather and being tired, she listens better Not that I aim to overheat her.

"Jumping or reaching for food or treat before it is put down or in reach. " She does do that. I also found she knows how to dance, which we may have to exclude as a "trick" to keep her down.

"Putting his or her feet on you, standing on or pawing at you." This is exactly what she does! And I know exactly what she is trying to do and I don't like it. And I make it known, by having to over dominate HER.

"Trying to be physically taller than you." Only with women, not men, when sitting with her. She tries to make herself taller by raising her head. No mounting, just the "I'm bigger than you!" bull. With men she cowers in their laps.

"Getting on furniture before you or before being given permission." She does it with thought too. "I know I am not suppose to, but I want to."

"Reluctance to move from a spot you want to sit on, walk through or put something in." Ugh. This coincides with furniture. And getting in my way. A way of "herding" so to speak.

"Reluctance to release food or toys." Toys are hers. She may drop it. But she has the look of... "Go ahead. Grab it. I dare you." It's all a part of HER game.

"Reluctance to obey simple, normal commands such as sit, go-out, get-off, etc. May be a refusal or slow compliance." Repetitive sucks, but is needed. Even then tons of relapse!

"Running into you or jumping on you hard during play. This is a display of physical superiority and rights." EXACTLY what she does. And then I take the toy away, and leave. The second the toy is gone, I can go back in and she has calmed down 110%.

"Holding chews or toys against you while chewing or playing with toy." Coincides with her pushing, shoving, jumping, when playing.

"Any attempt to shove you out of the way when walking, sitting with, moving past or laying with you." She will move out the way for us, but wants us to move out of her way.

"Getting playful or cute instead of obeying when told to do things. The dog may obey briefly and immediately resume previous behavior." Mainly the "don't hurt me" cuteness. Which does not work on me.

Unfortunately all the "what to do's" they mentioned on their blog/page/thing I've already done. But it's finding the right amount of dominance and gentleness, with having to lean further towards dominance. Too much she shuts down into a fetal position of "don't hurt me!"

Looks like it is more buckling down than I thought.
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post #87 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 02:47 AM
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When I got a rescue dog, I assumed nothing had been done "right." So I started from scratch as if the dog were a puppy. Even if it knew commands, I trained as if it didn't.

Two or three 15 minute training sessions per day: Sit, down, stay ("Come" is later).

Walks only with small pinch collar with extra links (if needed). No leads longer than six feet.

If they got excited or started acting unacceptably, crated for 15 minutes. Training session (maybe only five minutes) and then regular activities.

If they attempted to jump up, I walked forward into them without saying a word. The pack leader does so silently (hardest lesson for me to learn). The walking forward is also an old conformation trick to make the dog being shown wait at a distance for their bait.

If they attempted to put feet on my arm, I dropped the arm (no vocal reprimand).

To teach them to take treats nicely (dogs with unknown origins only; never puppies), I shove my fist down their throat (treat is in fist). Awful, aren't I? Or I quick pop them full force on the front of their nose with the back of my closed hand (treat in hand). I yell "Ouch" really loud with either method. Works fast and well and the dog thinks *it* caused the problem because *I* yelled."

It's hard with a rescued do to know what's truly dominant and what is learned. A non-dominant dog will try anything once; if the people who owned Pan before reacted by giving in to the first attempt, it could be learned dominant behavior instead of natural. Took me a while to figure that one out, too.

Cholla! Cholla! Cholla! Desert Driftwood Soon To Reopen
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post #88 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Lol I've done the bop-on-the-nose trick for treats :p

As for the collar, the one I have tightens when she pulls, and loosens once she stops. Not sure how I snagged that collar but it works. I want to find a "handle leash". Made usually for large dogs who don't need extra leash, it's just a handle! Would be good for training. Also wanting to grab a 5 meter leash soley for ball-playing.

I've figured out the toy thing. Since she is dominant, I have to over dominate her! So the toy... Is mine. Can she play with it? Maybe. If I say so. I can bounce it. Doesn't mean she can have it. I can toss it up in the air. Still mine. I can set it down. Still mine. Then I tell her to come get it or I toss it to her. When I want it back, I walk forward and say "drop it", then make her back away (I taught her "back off" which works... She's not dumb, just stubborn!) then it's mine and I can take it.

So we will work on that outdoors. She cannot be offleash (our "off leash" areas are not fenced, one is owned by a construction company behind the busiest parkinglot aka walmart, and the other is a trail/park that sports has 98% control on hence why there is no fence...) so the huge long leash would be nice, out back in the field we have.

I've had one dog who needed 80% gentleness and 20% firm. He caught on fast that of course I loved him (still do and it sucks to have to rehome any animal...) but I still owned the home and yard, and controlled the walks and food.

The GSD pup... Didn't really need anything o_O except interaction. And a mini pool :p he was way too smart lol (I'd do it all over again with a smart GSD!!)

This time it's completely different from anything I have done.

However 10 points to her for NOT being a barking dog! Heard it forthe first time yesterday when we had a fella come in to take down a security sustem to move itto the owner's new house. All you hear is some whining then a really low quiet "wuff...wuff..." I don't mind a none barking dog. If we figure out how to fully get her on track that'll be handy for me and baby sleeping!!

I'll be sending you an email soon here :)
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post #89 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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When we went for the walk, we tried the halti. She hated it. Got it off like... Three times. I guess they are made so the dog cannot get snagged and hurt? Because I have the back tightened enough to be firmly on without rubbing or pressing hard against her face. The front is a lot looser But eventually she stopped fighting it (lots of temper tantrums...).

Then we met a fella and his collie. He gave me some tips of where to go to train her via fields and such... One place is remote, and there is little to no chance of her getting hit by vehicles or wandering into a construction zone. That's where he took his collie (who apparently acted about the same lol) to train her. He also said that spaying definitely helped with his dog's behavior, and should do the same for Pan.

They had a soccer ball... And she went bezerk over it She loves any ball! Then she proceeded to freak out and cry/whine when they left. We're working on it.

So we went to the vet for her shots (they also sent me home with deworming pills to give to her a few days from now).

She was good with the cats. The cats also did not run however. Looks like "indoor cats" will be easier to get her used to then outdoor cats - which is normally what people have found with their dogs too!

Then someone came in with their mini American Eskimo, I did not allow her to meet the small dog, and explained to him she gets over excited with small dogs, so both of us agreed to sit across the room from each other So Pan had to sit there, able to see and smell the dog from where we sat, but not allowed to greet, attack, play etc. Eventually she calmed down, showing interest but no excitement to the dog.

Then we met the vet - which now she is getting used to men more and more (has no choice), and did not cower from him. He could not take her temperature because unlike most dogs who try to scoot their bum away, she puts up a real fight not to have anything done that she deems unnecessary! But looking her over he asked if I were willing to take a chance with the vaccinations (since temperature tells us about fevers and such) and since she looks and acts healthy, no diarrhea or vomiting... We took the chance.

The shots were not bad. She barely noticed it. She also got 4 treats out of it The last treat she was back on the floor, and actually sat there to receive the treat. (I also did not feed her before we went). In four weeks we go back to give her the final vaccination.

When we were waiting out in the front room for the deworming pills and bill, a lady and her two kids (8 and 10 maybe?) came in. She does NOT jump on kids! Thank god. Good to know.

Then we saw a large dog come in (12 years old), who looked to be a Bernese, Shepherd mix (she said shepherd collie... She is a lot bigger than either of those, so she's a well mixed breed ) such a friendly old gal! And again Pan proved to not mind bigger dogs. Sadly I believe I know why that old gal was there... Her back legs were so stiff and weak... And she couldn't hold her bladder. By the lady's tone, that poor ol' gal was at her end :(
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post #90 of 93 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Going to keep this thread updated.

First off, how many of you cringe at: jar'o'pennies.

Second: Depends how you use something. An idiot who has the remote to a shock collar, will either frustrate/anger or scare their dog. An idiot with a jar of pennies, will do the same. And idiot with a leash, can also do the same.

So all in all, everything can be negative. It's how it is used, that makes a difference.

Sound + attention = good things. Sound = good.

Sound + more sound + scolding/leash pulling = bad things. Sound = bad.

Constant sound = annoying. Annoyed = ignore.

I may not be good at math, but that is pretty simple (and is a part of common sense). I used the jar of pennies for my GSD (mainly his sight was the issue) and he learned if he came over when he heard it he got a treat/toy/pat/praise. I'm doing the same with her.
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