Determining Quality - Page 3 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 06:55 PM
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Maybe too much inbreeding might make the nicer bettas weaker. Like how some pure bred dogs don't live as long as mixed breeds?
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-26-2012, 02:34 AM
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What I mean is, *in theory*, if you took equally terrible care of both a poor-quality fish and a high-quality fish, which one would thrive better? Or is there a difference?

A HM will get fins chewd up quicker than a plakat.. and is open for more attack from bacteria with the fin rot. But these being fish it does not take much in poor water quility to kill either quick. Ammonia and nitrItes will kill like a nuclear bomb will kill the wealthy and the poor equally. I feel a lot of line breeding takes some of the sturdiness out of the fish like you see in dogs. I remember when collies and afghans were stout.. not the 2x4's you see on legs these days. Same with fish. I like to run parallell lines so I don't do too much line breeding yet keep the genetics. Not sure they last longer or are healthier.. just have more mass to them. Line breeding tends towards pencil skinny fish.

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-04-2012, 04:02 PM
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Parallel lines?

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-04-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TheShadyBird View Post
Parallel lines?
Probably two breeding pairs as a start and then crossing their offspring to avoid inbreeding and the genetic deficiencies it will produce over time.

To answer the question about which is healthier: In theory none. Both DNA wise are the same in regards to structure. The information on how long a fin is or what colours are they plays absolutely no role in its health.
However there are other factors such as skeletal structure that an inexperienced person might not take into account. Yet though, even that might be an accident of birth so to speak and might not be an inherited genetic condition or might relate to conditions external of the fish's upbringing (ie some fish that are bought bent and when nursed turn straight again: Check the broken heart thread to see what i write of).

To sum it up: Both show and 'random bred' fish are genetically predisposed the same in regards to health / hardiness. The only difference is their upbringing and looks. Most of the time a show betta will be healthier due to it being a prized fish and considered valuable and kept in pristine conditions and a healthier diet whereas mass bred bettas will be kept to a minimum of requirements until sold.

There are two questions that arise though which have no definite answer at least for the time being:

1)From a marine biologist friend of mine i know that fish can be 'safely' inbred for around 4-6 generations. If that limit is accurate and is been exceeded what happens to subsequent inbred generations in regards to their DNA, health and structure?

2)Given the fact that nature has a way of adapting and evolving species according to their environmental conditions what would the differences of the species been, if we had two parallel lines of betta living in different conditions? One a show line kept into optimum conditions and one of random bred kept at minimum? My guess would be that the show ones will become more beautiful yet more docile and eventually will have weaker immune systems due to not facing extremes in their environment yet with a longer lifespan (as long as they are kept comfy). On the other hand the random bred will be a haphazard and quite possibly faint colouring due to lack of quality food and conditions, leading them to become hardier and more accepting on a wide variety of conditions, been harder to succumbing to decease and quite possibly breed a survival instinct that can be translated as aggression.

Unfortunately all the above is an 'educated (of shorts) speculation' of possibilities since I do not posses the facilities to go into such a research.

However it would make an excellent idea for a PHD ;)

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Last edited by Pilot00; 09-04-2012 at 05:46 PM.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-05-2012, 11:48 AM
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There's 3 different types of CTs in the IBC handbook (crossed, double, single) so the ones you are looking at might fall into one of those.
Straight rays are very hard to keep on CTs as the water quality plays a huge role. You might want to first try to keep CTs with straight rays before attempting breeding as your water might ruin any chances of you ever producing a showable CT.
Well said!!! I can't do CT because of my water...

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-05-2012, 03:16 PM
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@ Pilot00

Such a well written and thoughtful response!

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-05-2012, 05:57 PM
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Thank you! I knew my passion about biology would somehow be useful. Too bad i discovered said passion too late to become a biologist myself.

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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-05-2012, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
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Well said!!! I can't do CT because of my water...
Thanks, Lori.
I cant keep them for the same reason.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-06-2012, 07:41 AM
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Ive been hearing that CT's have problems with the water but i don't know the specifics, if i can hijack the thread for a couple replies (with the op's permission ofc), does anyone care to fill me in?

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-06-2012, 08:22 AM
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Hard water causes issues with the rays. It would effect there ability to show. Broken rays, damage fins, etc. will be disqualified in a show, since hard water causes Severe curling on the rays there's no point in showing and breeding them if you have hard water and don't do anything about it

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