Critiques on my Double Tail please? - Page 2 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 07:31 PM
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Some stores do get them from USA mass bred places. Because it is cheaper, then to import from thailand. Not all stores get them from thailand. I know this about stores in MY area.

To be honest however, it is up to YOU what to breed. My doubletail does have the "mitten tail" as mentioned above, but it is not as noticeable. The cool thing about bettas is that you find another, to offset the "bad" in a fish and create something wonderful. How else would half-moons, doubletails, etc exist? Magically? Unlikely! It took time, effort, and someone who wanted perfection to create such finnage.

Although I will say I do notice the uneven head, which can be like spoonheads where some of the fry may or may not get it. You just never know... Personally I wouldn't breed him for that reason, but again it is up to you :)

Breed for the breed, not for the money; the words any REAL breeder would understand.

You must know nothing in order to know all, for all is nothing and nothing is for all.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 07:54 PM
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honestly it's his back that's bothering me the most...he's got a VERY pronounced hump under his dorsal fin.

So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on Earth.

Godric/Eric/Sookie/Frodo/Sam/Vlad/Rasputin/Genghis/Hannibal/TARDIS/
LaVey/Crowley/Dahmer/Ripper/Al/Thor/Skadhi/Freija/Sunna/Mead/Mani/
Loki/Grendel/Gail/Beowulf/Camilla/River/Bathory/Arwen/Lafayette/Deb/Jack Skellington (soon)
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Setsuna View Post
I say just do it reguardless wat other people say. You never know untill you try it. So wat if you dont know where he came from or what is parents look like. Just find him a red split tail/double tail and your set good luck
The fish is very faulty so what do you hope to accomplish by breeding? Making the breeder feel all warm and fuzzy? And you NEVER breed DT x DT. A Dt x ST will give you bent spines and short stubby bodies.. why do you want to double up on that?

Bringing ANY life into the world should be done responsibly. What happens when you get a large spawn? And you are trying to jar 100+ fish? How about the 2-3 hours every night doing water changes? All for fish that have no purpose. And when you get tired of all the work they rot and suffer. No chain will take local fish. And the mom and pops at least want some quality. That bumpy topline will end up in a lot of his offspring.. no one selling fish wants that. Are you prepared to humanely kill all those fish? He is a pet and should not be bred.

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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 03:07 AM
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Pet store bettas are fine to breed... many people that have won shows have won with fish bred down from pet store bettas. It's people's personal preference on what they wish to breed, and where they got their fish - but store bettas are just as good as all the rest.

He is pretty in an unique/color way, but that is about it, imo..
I seriously doubt the winners at shows come from pet shop stock. Know most people showing and can only say one.. in the NB classes has used pet shop stock. Until those fish can win in the open standard classes.. best to say show winning fish come from the better lines. And most of us are pretty picky who we buy from..

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
I seriously doubt the winners at shows come from pet shop stock. Know most people showing and can only say one.. in the NB classes has used pet shop stock. Until those fish can win in the open standard classes.. best to say show winning fish come from the better lines. And most of us are pretty picky who we buy from..
See, unfortunately, to me that makes no sense. Genetics are passed from parents, of which most pet shops now adays receive from Taiwan. I agree that this fish shouldnt be bred, but saying that you cant get "show Quality" fish from breeding a line from petstores is mildly biased.

I've actually found better lines on a fish from petco than the one I bought on Aquabid. The fish that are sent en mass to petstores just need a well discerning eye, and a little patience and time to breed to F3 and onward for show quality.

And truly, you DO need a business license to sell to chains, but those mom and pop stores WILL take culls..even if it is to feed their predator fish.

Just keep swimming.
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 05:37 PM
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See, unfortunately, to me that makes no sense. Genetics are passed from parents, of which most pet shops now adays receive from Taiwan. I agree that this fish shouldnt be bred, but saying that you cant get "show Quality" fish from breeding a line from petstores is mildly biased.

I've actually found better lines on a fish from petco than the one I bought on Aquabid. The fish that are sent en mass to petstores just need a well discerning eye, and a little patience and time to breed to F3 and onward for show quality.

And truly, you DO need a business license to sell to chains, but those mom and pop stores WILL take culls..even if it is to feed their predator fish.
When your name is in the top 5 breeders.. THEN you can tell me you get good stock from the LFS. You probably do not even have an eye for form or color as it relates to the show ring. There are a lot of worthless fish on AB right now too.. mutts that they want $25 each or more from. There are a few good breeders on AB that have show quality stock. The rest are interesting.., but not worth their price and the fees to import. And I sure don't want their genetics in my fish room. And as a breeder I don't care to spend 3 or more seasons breeding and sorting out the genetic dump. I want improvement in F1 or it is not worth my time.

The other draw back with the LFS is they go to mass holding areas and pick up disease. At least I know if I buy from so and so that fish has been bred well and kept as healthy as possible. They are not cattle like the ones shiped to pet shops.

Again.. if you want to breed pet shop fish.. knock your socks off. This area of this forum is for those that want to show. And to get the best results in the show ring you MUST have quality fish. RARELY will they come from a pet shop. Do you not think I take the time to look when I got to a lfs? The competition in shows is stiff. If you want to discuss breeding pet quality fish there is another area of the forum that will encourage you. You post here and it is going to looked at thorough a breeder's eye that shows. And we are gonna tell you to get the best quality you can. And that means finding a US breeder with stock or taking a chance on the better AB breeders.

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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't end up breeding him. I didnt notice the hump until after you guys pointed it out somehow. I had to euthanize him bc of dropsy last week. I've got a few others I'm going to ask you all to critique here in a few days though

10 HM, 3 HMPK, 5 HMPK fry
8 German Blue Ram, 5 Green Dragon BNP, 4 Albino BNP, 4 Calico BNP, 6 Red BNP, 5 Kuhli Loaches, 2 ADF, 7 Peppered Cories, & 6 Tiger Endlers + Fry
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
When your name is in the top 5 breeders.. THEN you can tell me you get good stock from the LFS. You probably do not even have an eye for form or color as it relates to the show ring. There are a lot of worthless fish on AB right now too.. mutts that they want $25 each or more from. There are a few good breeders on AB that have show quality stock. The rest are interesting.., but not worth their price and the fees to import. And I sure don't want their genetics in my fish room. And as a breeder I don't care to spend 3 or more seasons breeding and sorting out the genetic dump. I want improvement in F1 or it is not worth my time.

The other draw back with the LFS is they go to mass holding areas and pick up disease. At least I know if I buy from so and so that fish has been bred well and kept as healthy as possible. They are not cattle like the ones shiped to pet shops.

Again.. if you want to breed pet shop fish.. knock your socks off. This area of this forum is for those that want to show. And to get the best results in the show ring you MUST have quality fish. RARELY will they come from a pet shop. Do you not think I take the time to look when I got to a lfs? The competition in shows is stiff. If you want to discuss breeding pet quality fish there is another area of the forum that will encourage you. You post here and it is going to looked at thorough a breeder's eye that shows. And we are gonna tell you to get the best quality you can. And that means finding a US breeder with stock or taking a chance on the better AB breeders.
Aren't you the snob. I've taken plenty of advise from people I respect on this site, unfortunately, I find it hard to respect you as a person.

I admire your bettas, but your general attitude towards other enthusiasts and breeders is wanting.

I've never entered in shows, and I dont really plan too, because my interest is in the study of the actual genetics. I study the standard put out by IBC, and the information put out by various breeders. I study the stagnation of genetics of insular breeding, of "pureblood" breeding as similar to dog breeding. You breed too closely, and tons of genetic anomalies and issues pop up, and this especially seems to happen when people constantly cull out characteristics they deem "ugly" or not "show standard".

You may think you are all that, but learn some manners before going all pretentious on others who may just enjoy the beauty of breeding their own fish.

Just keep swimming.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 09:52 PM
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Well, this IS a thread in the show section of the forum so you're going to get honest opinions from breeders. In the future, to avoid arguments I feel it's best to post threads about fish that are pets in other sections and leave this section for show fish and questions pertaining to show fish.
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 10:27 PM
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Well, this IS a thread in the show section of the forum so you're going to get honest opinions from breeders. In the future, to avoid arguments I feel it's best to post threads about fish that are pets in other sections and leave this section for show fish and questions pertaining to show fish.
I apologize. I've been studying the genetic lines of fish, and being told that you CAN NOT do it except the way that someone else says just got my back up.

I believe it may take time for a person willing to do it, and I understand why someone who is a frequent of shows would not want to waste the time on it.

But having someone insult my ability to recognize or follow the standard set by the IBC or another Betta conglomerate was just plain ignorant to me. I have eyes to see, and to read. I will accept opinions, and knowledge to fill gaps of ignorance, but not insults to my intelligence.

Just keep swimming.
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