Mycobacteria - Page 6 - Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care
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post #51 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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What you should get from this thread is use care when getting new fish. If your fish have a disease that is very resistant to meds, take a hard look at the fact you may have mycos. There is a PROPER way to get rid of it. And for those want to not get it is is not a bad idea to still have an anti TB spray to clean stuff once in a while.

No need to panic. Yes.. you see alot of it around. Just know some facts and you can prevent it or if you decide you might have it.. you can rest knowing you can eliminate it with the proper procedures. There is no more struggling with mystery unknowns you cant get rid of. When all other options fail.. look closer at this one.

That's all...

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post #52 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:10 PM
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OK. I am going to break this down, and hopefully end the mass hysteria that seems to be going on. First, I would like to say, I am a Medical Technologist. I am currently a laboratory supervisor with many years of Laboratory experience. I am not a self proclaimed basement breeding fish expert.

99% of fish have some form of pathogen, whether it be Ich, Myco, or other.

Most fish is a well kept aquarium do not get sick. Healthy immune systems fight off illness. Think of this in terms of a chemo patient. They can died from the common cold because they're immune system is weak and stressed. Most healthy people shrug off the common cold.

I am a woman. I have yeast. Doesn't mean I have a yeast infection. Oh wait, I also have staph on my skin. Doesnt mean I have a staph infection. Oh and that yogurt you are eating? Oh that has bacteria in it too. Lactobacillus, which is also known as normal vaginal flora. Oh yes, it is. Think about it.

Everyone and everything has a bacterial subsystem living within them, each one keeping another in check. It is all part of the immune system. When one part gets compromised, defenses fail and you end up diseased, This goes the same for any organism, whether a mammal or fish.

HEALTHY TANKS EQUAL HEALTHY FISH. IF YOU ARE CONCERNED, QUARANTINE. TAKE CARE OF YOUR TANK.
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post #53 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:12 PM
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Alaya, BB, Sakura, Dieses, Twolovers, and Olympia; thank you all for your support and reassurance. This thread really scared me...

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post #54 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Basement Bettas View Post
As long as they are not exposed to a more pathogenic strain of the mycos..
A thought just occurred to me

What you're saying is that 70% of all farm fish (like for major petstores) carry some strain of mycos.

Also, per Olympia, fish in the wild also carry some sort of strain of mycos and it can even be found in the soil.

What you just said here mentioned a PATHOGENIC strain. So say, out of those 70% of fish that carry mycos, how many documented major wipe-outs like the one that happened to you have happened?

And if it's as small a number as it seems to be (seeing as most people don't ever have an issue with this disease) is it possible that only the people who handle large numbers of fish see the pathogenic strain? and if so, and if only 1 fish caused this and the ONE fish happened to have this particular pathogenic strain, then is it possible that a MUCH LOWER percent of fish actually have the disease that is causing the panic that we are seeing?

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post #55 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:13 PM
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It is not google doing my research. Google led me to those in the field. I have asked them and they have answered. I have papers written by those I have talked to published in the trade magazines. I would think if they were a farce, the scientific community would debunk them. And the research is supported by research done in other counties. I have spent a lot of time reading research papers.. and then directly questioning those that wrote them. I'm sure Dr whipps work will stand on its own. I do not doubt what you do. I know what I was told was the diagnoses. I know what I have been told is the solution. I know what I had in my fish room. I also know what DID NOT get rid of it. Research has led me to believe what I was told to be true. I'd be very curious to read some of your papers that show where the information I have received is false.
It's not a matter of published papers, its common sense. If every fish has myco, then every fish should be killed and at home aquariums should be banned. And all these papers you speak of, I seem to be having trouble finding. Nothing I am reading is indicating that its the epidemic you are claiming it is. Sorry you lost years of works. Clean your tanks.

** 75g: 2 Green Terrors, 2 Severums, 3 Synodontis Eupteras ** 75g: 8 Yellow Labs, 11 Blue Zebras, 7 Hap. sp35 ** 55g: Jack Dempsey Breeding pair
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post #56 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:16 PM
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Twolovers, you have a very good point and I think it bears looking at. It's a logical assumption in any case that the larger the numbers, the higher the statistics.

Also, one thing I learned in college pyschology is statistics can ALWAYS be skewed to serve one's purposes and to not take numbers just by themselves but to seek further information.
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post #57 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twolovers101 View Post
A thought just occurred to me

What you're saying is that 70% of all farm fish (like for major petstores) carry some strain of mycos.

Also, per Olympia, fish in the wild also carry some sort of strain of mycos and it can even be found in the soil.

What you just said here mentioned a PATHOGENIC strain. So say, out of those 70% of fish that carry mycos, how many documented major wipe-outs like the one that happened to you have happened?

And if it's as small a number as it seems to be (seeing as most people don't ever have an issue with this disease) is it possible that only the people who handle large numbers of fish see the pathogenic strain? and if so, and if only 1 fish caused this and the ONE fish happened to have this particular pathogenic strain, then is it possible that a MUCH LOWER percent of fish actually have the disease that is causing the panic that we are seeing?
I've seen people with one or very few fish get this disease. But it makes sense that the more fish you have, the higher chance of getting it. I wouldn't say that ONLY people who handle large numbers of fish experience it...

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post #58 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DiesesMadchen View Post
OK. I am going to break this down, and hopefully end the mass hysteria that seems to be going on. First, I would like to say, I am a Medical Technologist. I am currently a laboratory supervisor with many years of Laboratory experience. I am not a self proclaimed basement breeding fish expert.

99% of fish have some form of pathogen, whether it be Ich, Myco, or other.

Most fish is a well kept aquarium do not get sick. Healthy immune systems fight off illness. Think of this in terms of a chemo patient. They can died from the common cold because they're immune system is weak and stressed. Most healthy people shrug off the common cold.

I am a woman. I have yeast. Doesn't mean I have a yeast infection. Oh wait, I also have staph on my skin. Doesnt mean I have a staph infection. Oh and that yogurt you are eating? Oh that has bacteria in it too. Lactobacillus, which is also known as normal vaginal flora. Oh yes, it is. Think about it.

Everyone and everything has a bacterial subsystem living within them, each one keeping another in check. It is all part of the immune system. When one part gets compromised, defenses fail and you end up diseased, This goes the same for any organism, whether a mammal or fish.

HEALTHY TANKS EQUAL HEALTHY FISH. IF YOU ARE CONCERNED, QUARANTINE. TAKE CARE OF YOUR TANK.
I agree with you 100% But exposure to this strain will take a fish down., Happy and healthy will not make the fish able to resist this. There is no immunity once this enters the fish. It will weaken the fish and eventually kill it. My fish were in perfect health until exposed to this. And I dare say others I know who have dealt with this also have perfectly healthy systems until exposed. Sure.. take care of your tanks. But make sure you are not exposed too. I had UV and that just slowed the progression. I put perfectly happy and healthy fish back in my barracks and fish once again showed symptoms. It had not been eradicated properly from the system itself. did not even need a sick fish this time. I'm sure exposing you to something like the plague will quickly make even you not feel too good. Depends on what you are exposed to.

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post #59 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AyalaCookiejar View Post
I've seen people with one or very few fish get this disease. But it makes sense that the more fish you have, the higher chance of getting it. I wouldn't say that ONLY people who handle large numbers of fish experience it...
You are correct, I shouldn't have used the term "only" maybe "mostly" or "the majority of people who see this type of disease are those who handle large numbers of fish" would have been more appropriate xD

Also, I have seen it happen to a person with only one fish before, so it is possible, what I'm saying is maybe the percentages of this particular deadly pathogenic strain are actually lower than what people think

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post #60 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-16-2013, 10:25 PM
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Basement Bettas... Out of curiousity, did you QT the fish that introduced this to your tanks? Did you buy him/her from a store or a breeder? If you did QT, how long? What were the first symptoms? Most alarming?
I'm just curious because I want to know how long to QT any new fish and what exactly to look for and such...

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