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Old 03-14-2012, 09:51 PM   #31 
Olympia
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Yes, like I said she's a Dobie, which is why I'm more concerned about all this training business in the first place. I really don't want to end up with a bad Dobie that makes her breed look bad..
And YES, I have been doing a lot of training research, but I think that's the problem.. There are so many techniques that I'm confused about which "style" to follow. I've always done the basic dominance training (I go through the door first, go down the stairs first, mostly because it is annoying if they speed past me!). I've been tempted to pick up a clicker and try that out, too :)

Another debated topic- fear. We were walking and a train scared the heck out of her today.. I just stood there with her (we were a good way away from it) until it passed and kept going..
One side says NOT to comfort your dog, that is reinforces fear (the pack mentality training).
The other side says to comfort your dog when she feels fear (I was reading this on a site about fearful dogs).. I feel this question will start a whole new argument :p
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:01 PM   #32 
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JMO, but I think clickers are a bit silly. Like any other training 'tool' (and gadgetry for horses is included here), they can't take the place of a human hand or voice. And what if you lose the clicker! ohnoes!

At this age, pick the class that's all about socialising with people/other dogs and having fun while you do so. Your 98-day old pup is not going eat the mailman! The classes ought to be a LOT of fun for both of you, and pretty basic as well. If they aren't fun, they're not the right class.

I have had a VERY nervous bull terrier pup, scared of his own shadow. Staying calm and pretty much not over reacting to his panic attacks really helped. He also wasn't getting enough socialisation or street-excercise (shame on me) and he happened to be a pup who needed a lot of that, in small doses, to grow used to the world at large.

later on, he was a huge, banana-nosed goof that loved his walks and wasn't scared of anything (except our cat... who was mafioso..very scary, lol)

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Old 03-14-2012, 10:15 PM   #33 
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JMO, but I think clickers are a bit silly. Like any other training 'tool' (and gadgetry for horses is included here), they can't take the place of a human hand or voice. And what if you lose the clicker! ohnoes!

At this age, pick the class that's all about socialising with people/other dogs and having fun while you do so. Your 98-day old pup is not going eat the mailman! The classes ought to be a LOT of fun for both of you, and pretty basic as well. If they aren't fun, they're not the right class.
I am by no means a dog training expert, but I totally agree with This, all your dog needs to hear is your voice or you whistling at her to get her attention. Gadgets are a waste of money. Your pup is only 3 months old, she simply just doesnt know any better yet, getting her socialized to other dogs, humans and exspecially kids will be benefit everyone. I dont care what breed you have , a well trained dog can be trusted in any situation, Personaly I think Ceasar Milan and his tactics are

On a funny note, the whole dominance training thing? How dominant do you think you look when your dog is out in the yard watching YOU pick up HIS dodo.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:19 PM   #34 
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With Emma I haven't used a "dominance" training methods. She knows I am alpha just by my body language, voice tones, and simple things that are done all the time. Like either walk beside me or behind me. I walk through the doorway 1st, not my dog. My bed, my couch, my chair, my lap....my rules. I also made sure she is FULLY aware that I mean business when I mean business and I have also given her "release" cues that tell her it is play time.
I believe it is important and very useful to teach your dog "release" cues. Example, you just walked through the gate of an off leash doggie park. (i seen this scene all the time) Dog is lunging at the end of the lead and the owners hold onto the dog's collar as the dog is "freaking out" and very excited. Owners are either fighting the dog to sit still or frantically unbuckling the leash. Once that leash is off the dog takes off without a ponder to their owners.

Here is what happens with me and Emma (and my past dogs).
Walk through the gates at my side. If Emma removes from my "heel" position we walk back out of the gates. Once back at my side we move forward.
Once in the gates, Emma automatically sits.(manly because she goes through this routine every Friday)
I remove the leash and Emma waits for my "go play" cue.

I will NOT fight with my dog at the doggie park. If I have to fight her like that, she won't be visiting the doggie park until I am able to get her under control. In my observance, owners who have to struggle with their dogs at the gate struggle to get their dogs to listen to them at the park off leash.

Last edited by FishyFishy89; 03-14-2012 at 10:23 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:30 PM   #35 
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By dominance that is what I meant.. the doors thing.. I do this because it is a hazard to have have an 80lb dog running by me down the stairs or jumping on people.. Walking properly is proving a challenge, but we will get through it..

A lot of these things are stuff I taught my boxer to do.. Waiting for a command before running off, etc. Just that this little dog seems a lot more willful, which is why I thought maybe other tactics would work better :o

We used to go to the dog park but stopped after our dog got sick from other dogs there.. not worth the risk IMO. Our dog parks receive little funding and our not well monitored for those things.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:34 PM   #36 
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By dominance that is what I meant.. the doors thing.. I do this because it is a hazard to have have an 80lb dog running by me down the stairs or jumping on people.. Walking properly is proving a challenge, but we will get through it..

A lot of these things are stuff I taught my boxer to do.. Waiting for a command before running off, etc. Just that this little dog seems a lot more willful, which is why I thought maybe other tactics would work better :o

We used to go to the dog park but stopped after our dog got sick from other dogs there.. not worth the risk IMO. Our dog parks receive little funding and our not well monitored for those things.
I only take Emma to Fleet Peeples Park. I personally know the owner of the park and there is also a group of Friends of Fleet Peeples http://www.ffpp.org/ who help sponsor the park. All the attendees enforce the rules. If an aggressive dog is found they immediately start politely (some rudely) telling the owner to leave. And if the owner doesn't leave the police is called.

As far as the heel command and the door issue. Just keep at it. Take advantage of having a big dog. When she goes to pass you in the house, snag her collar, firmly tell her "no" and put her behind you.
I'd set aside 15 mins a day practicing this. Stay constistant. Don't change how fast, or how you react to her.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:29 AM   #37 
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Dogs don't go through doors first because they think they're dominant. They're simply excited to see what's on the other side.
Dominance theory is wrong and not accepted as a viable method in the professional world of dog behavior and training.
I recommend "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson if you really want to know how a dog thinks.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:31 AM   #38 
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Either way it's hazardous for them to do so and I'd rather not have them doing that..

Curious.. If dogs don't have dominance than why on earth do they hump each other? :O are they just dirty little monsters?
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:46 AM   #39 
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That is a dominance display, but that's not what dominance theory is.
Dominance theory is the belief that wolves live in packs that have a linear structure of hierarchy (alphas, betas, omegas) and that carries over to dogs, but that's wrong.
1) Wolves don't live in packs organized like that. That was based on a study of captive wolves in the 1940s and has since been disproven. Wolf packs have a breeding pair and puppies. THey don't fight for dominance. When the puppies are old enough they simply leave and start their own packs.
2) Some dogs are more dominant than others, and some may have a self perception of being more dominant than their owners, but in many instances this is not the case. Dogs don't understand humans and they don't understand what humans want from them- many times when they misbehave they are just being a dog. Severe behavior problems may be from fear or aggression, but that doesn't mean that the dog is trying to dominate you, it's just from early upbringing by its mother, littermates, breeder, and owner in the first 4 months or so of its life.

"The whole dominances thing is, once again, a case of leaping to a conclusion before ruling out more obvious explanations. Dogs chew furniture because what else could furniture possibly be for? They are disobedient because they have no idea what the command means, are undermotivated to comply or something else has won the behavioral gambit at that moment in time, like a fleeing squirrel. Rank is not on their minds." Jean Donaldson

Dogs are dogs. If one bites, it's not necessarily being dominant. It might have fear issues, it might be telling you something in dog language like "leave me alone," or it might just simply bite because that's what dogs do. Dogs are motivated by rewards. If a dog doesn't come when its called, that's because it's chasing a squirrel, eating poop, meeting another dog, etc. Not because it thinks that it's dominant but because it's having fun. Dogs simply don't think like that. Instead of bullying dogs around owners should concentrate on teaching them what they DO want. If a dog barks at the UPS truck, teach it to come when called instead of yelling at it.
For training I recommend "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor. I also really like "It's Me or the Dog." Victoria Stilwell is a great example of a modern trainer who uses positive reinforcement which is the accepted method in dog training today.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:59 AM   #40 
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Okay, let me see if I get this... so when my female boxer dog humped me that one time, she WAS dominating me? xD
I get what you're saying.. I mean I never thought any of your examples were a dog acting dominant..

About the wolves, it can't just be a breeding pack and puppies, on documentaries it always shows several adult wolves hunting D:

I watched "It's me or the dog" and that is why I wanted to get a clicker. xD
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