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Old 03-25-2012, 03:53 AM   #21 
Hallyx
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On all these lengths, are we talking nose to caudal peduncle?
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Old 03-25-2012, 01:17 PM   #22 
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Previously I thought Kings were half giants. But an article I read claims that Kings and Giants are from two different lines.

Kings are said to be created in Malaysia - a cross between splendens and betta raja (raja means king) and can grow to a total of 3". These bettas are smaller than the giants (said to grow to 4-5" body only) created in Thailand out of selectively breeding regular but big bettas.

From all the pictures I've seen they all look the same. So IMO there is no way that you can tell whether a big betta is an old regular, a king, or a giant. The earlier giants had a rather hunched back thus noticeable. But now they look just like any other PK...... So you have to take their word for it.

Most bettas in Asia are sold young. 1. so breeders won't have to care for them for too long and spend more on feeding. 2. Younger fish are more active, stronger, and have better fins (both show and fighter). 3. Older bettas are worthless (specially fighters). As far as I know, they're usually sold between 3-4 months, depending on their growth rate. So regulars would be much smaller. (not sure at what age they reach the US - but they leave my country to Thai or Sing at around that age)

In 4 months Kings and Giants should reach at least 5cm/2" body only. True Giants are said could grow to over 6cm BO in 4 months. In short the bettas sold in the US should have growing ahead of them. Problem may be that they were kept in small containers and poorly cared for thus stunting their growth which greatly affects these kind of bettas. And for giants - some simply stop growing because of their unstable genes (not sure about Kings).

Though whole sale is cheaper, but I don't believe that you guys are being ripped off. Chain stores must pay for shipping and handling too (king and giant shipping = twice regular), plus daily care (supposed to anyway) until they're sold. Calculate all that into cost, it's fairly expensive.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:56 PM   #23 
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Thanks for the info, indjo. That was very helpful and interesting.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:16 PM   #24 
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I heard that too but I also heard that Raja was a mouth brooder? I cant say for sure since Ive never done much research into them.
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Old 03-25-2012, 04:46 PM   #25 
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Originally Posted by indjo View Post
Kings are said to be created in Malaysia - a cross between splendens and betta raja (raja means king)...
Unfortunately, all my "Betta appreciation" experience is photographic. Having said that, anyone would notice that Betta raja has a unique appearance. None of the Giants or "Kings" that I have seen bear even a remote resemblance.

Petco calls their larger-than-regular Betta by their marketing term "King." Do you think for a minute anyone at Petco knows what a Bett raja is? The confusion is only in the minds of the more sophisticated and educated Betta fancier.

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From all the pictures I've seen they all look the same.....In 4 months Kings and Giants should reach at least 5cm/2" body only.
From discussions on other forums, plus the spawn log of a current member, I am drawn to the conclusion that all Betta larger than 'regular-sized' result from efforts to breed larger fish. Like 'regular' Betta, the size varies depending on the quality and size of the parents and the success of the breeder.

Some Aquabid "Giants" are photographed and sold at 2". Some Petco "Kings" are bigger than that. They appear to be young fish, and probably are, for the reasons that Injo describes. I think the size of a Giant varies within a certain range, perhaps even overlapping that of larger 'regular' Betta. Perhaps size is less a valid indicator than genetics (is there a Giant gene?) or the intent of their breeder.

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Though whole sale is cheaper, but I don't believe that you guys are being ripped off. Chain stores must pay for shipping and handling too (king and giant shipping = twice regular), plus daily care (supposed to anyway) until they're sold. Calculate all that into cost, it's fairly expensive.
I have always maintained that Betta, regardless of size, color or type, are incredibly cheap, considering the cost of breeding and, especially, the cost incurred by the retailer to maintain and display individual fish. In fact, they are entirely too cheap, which is one reason for the abuse and poor husbandry that these fish endure.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:43 PM   #26 
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Betta raja... I want some. Theyre fairly easy to care for but I did confirm that they are mouth brooders that grow up to 4" in length. So they are big (Im sure of seen them before at my transshippers...) but they are mouthbrooders...
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:14 PM   #27 
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@ Hallyx: I see your point. The so called Kings doesn't show any signs of raja on them. But there is the possibility that only the size were taken from raja which then was bred back for generations to the splendens .... IDK. But this makes the article I read questionable.

I believe giants are genetic. The true giants will grow regardless of feeding. They might not grow as big (less feeding) but they will grow bigger than usual. While the poor giant genetic will not grow even though fed like crazy. One thing I'm sure of is that you have to get them as big as possible before 5 months because after that their growth will be greatly reduced.

The problem with giant genes in my area is that they are always crossed to regulars in an attempt to improve color and finnage. I don't believe any of them can reach 12cm body only with in a year.... not sure about Thai giants. Calculating growth rate tendencies, they should reach over 6-7cm in 4 months to reach 12cm.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:29 PM   #28 
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But there is the possibility that only the size were taken from raja which then was bred back for generations to the splendens .... IDK.
MrV makes the point that you cannot breed mouthbrooders with nest brooders. From other reading, I believe this to be so. Maybe Raja with Macs or Albis, but what would be the point? People who like wilds, want purebreds. I know I would.

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I believe giants are genetic.
I think most breeders of giants would agree.


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The problem with giant genes in my area is that they are always crossed to regulars in an attempt to improve color and finnage.
That's my understanding of how that works. Breed a few generations to get them big, then breed then back to get them pretty. Makes sense.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:28 AM   #29 
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That is weird that some petcos call them king bettas. Ours doesn't seem to use that sort of labeling.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:13 AM   #30 
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Its personally easier for me to just import some fish and usually my Thai bettas end up being as large or larger than king bettas.
Hi. Im new to the Betta world. Hoping you can drop some knowledge on me. what is an HMPK Betta? I live in Las Vegas and have been trying to find a breeder here with no luck. I may have to import my Bettas. can you give me any advice?
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