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Old 03-27-2012, 08:54 AM   #1 
Edifiler
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Inbreeding

Hey guys, so reading up on MrVampires thread about thaitybettas, I read some comments about inbreeding and am a little curious as to what inbreeding is all about. I know that a lot of research can be done on google but having people such as thaitybettas giving out incorrect information, the only way for sure is to ask experienced betta breeders. And I'm sure some members on this forum are interested in this as well.

I understand that mammals such as ourselves and some other classification groups suffer greatly when bred to siblings or related blood, thus producing deformed or mutated offspring. But from reading the comments, betta fish appears are not as affected and can be bred to their siblings or related blood 6 or so times before you should introduce new blood to prevent the offsprings from having defects.

Reading off what MrVampire said, inbreeding is used to strength traits and improve the quality of the betta, but must be done right. This is where I do not fully grasp the concept of inbreeding. What has to be taken into account to successfully breed the bettas to the siblings? What should be observed on the betta, physically or behaviorally, to perhaps indicate that he/she should not be bred to related blood? Is there a general rule of thumb that should be followed when inbreeding?

Thanks reading and hopefully you can contribute your knowledge to educate the less educated in this field. Thanks in advance. Sorry if this thread conflicts with others or a similar thread has been brought up.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:44 AM   #2 
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Inbreeding and line breeding can strengthen traits you want but it can also create defects. For example, back when HMs were starting out the breeder who created them bred brother to sister and then father to daughter. He produced a VT betta with a 180 degree spread. Eventually this trait was bred for but the original HM males were so inbred they couldnt complete a spawn!

Also defects are a natural part of any spawn. Inbreeding lines with a particular defect will increase the amount of defects in a spawn.

Out crossing is a challenge because there several variants of betta colors. For example, a super black betta line should only be crossed with another super black. Why? Because super black genes are different from other types of blacks. Also any major success in a line can be lost from an outcross.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:13 AM   #3 
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Thanks for clarifying things MrVampire. Are there any colours that have a different gene type other then super blacks?
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:49 PM   #4 
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Most colors are specific genetic codes. But most are so common/dominant that they will most often show (irid and red). The recessive ones are the ones that need inbreeding most or at least bred to a same color line (yellow, orange, true purple, true gold are some of the more difficult colors to create and maintain). Inbreeding these colors do not always produce the same colors or will wear them to a dull shade.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:01 AM   #5 
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Exactly. Opaque whites need to be crossed to steel blue (?) and then bred back to white because their color gets washed out.

So you need to know the basics of the colors you want to breed and be sure to spawn to the appropriate out cross.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:56 AM   #6 
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Ah I see, this is quite interesting in which the process and breeding you must go through to either keep the colour or to bring out another. Out of curiosity, would there be 1 colour that is the hardest keep or cross?

Does this also apply to marbles?
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:16 AM   #7 
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Actually marbles are completely different because if their "jumping gene" that is ever changing. With marbles, you can breed almost any color to and 99% of the time the whole spawn will have a marble pattern unlike solid colors. So my opinion would be no.

That is really mostly an opinion, but in all truth, I would have to say opaques "super whites" are the tough ones because any kind of gene that doesn't match with the opaques would be noticeable in time. They are usually a standard color while still young and then with age, some can show signs of marble or other colors like red wash. Red wash is hard to get out of a line as it is, but in solid colors red wash does take some time and selective breeding can be a huge help.

After opaques I would think that yellows/oranges are a really hard color to get because they do tend to look "faded." You don't often see too many yellows or oranges because if they are not bred to another yellow, you may have a loss of this color.
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