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Old 07-23-2012, 02:51 AM   #1 
magnum
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Breeding VT's?

Okay, so I'm looking at breeding my betta's by Christmas, and hypothetically, say, If I was ready and my fish were in condition, I may breed my Vieltail male to a VT girl. Now, I've heard heaps of argument's regarding the breeding of pet store fish, but Id also like to inform you guys that in this hypothetical situation I would be breeding proper bred VT's, to increase the form and such of the breed.

This also brings us to the statement of people not breeding their VT's because of their absence in the show ring. Is this because they are sort of like your mixed breed dog? Or has it got to do with the VT being the dominant gene, thus if bred to a CT, the VT gene will overpower, and if more people were to breed VT crosses, we would end up with a shortage of other tail types?

Much Thanks,
Magnum.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:00 AM   #2 
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The reason people don't breed vt's is because they are hard to market to others. People including myself, agree that vt is vt there is nothing to improve on their form.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:54 AM   #3 
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Ponder this question. Are you going to be able to take care of almost all the fry for the rest of their lives if your not able to give them away? Or are you comfortable with culling a hundred fish to keep just the few you want?
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:08 PM   #4 
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The reason most people don't breed them is because they are hard to sell because you can get them at petsmart for $.99 and they can't show VT's in IBC. So It seems to a breeder, to be a waste of time.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:27 PM   #5 
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Its true you cant show them but I know there are many breeders out there looking to keep beautiful well bred vt lines going. Most pet store vts dont actually fit the vt standard. I would recommend learning the standard. Hopefully one day people will be able to show vt sense they were the real start of long finned forms.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:37 PM   #6 
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It varies by location...but in some areas the VT sells well in other it doesn't. IME I have found that more people are looking for a cool looking Betta for a pet with no intention to show and haven't a clue about standard-they either like the looks of the Betta or don't.....

The VT is the grandfather of all the tail type and why it is called a mutt I don't understand and with the standard PK being the short fin version of the VT....These are what started the Betta craze and with years of selective breeding they helped to create the other tail types......

The Betta either meets standards or it doesn't-the biggest difference with breeding pet shop and Betta from a breeders is knowing genetic history and even still...sometimes you don't get genetic history from a breeder-not all breeder keep good records and even with known genetic history you can have some surprises. When working with mystery genetic you never know what you will get and sometimes it can take several generation to reach your goals....This is dependent on what your goals are too.....

Some argue that it cost the same to spawn, rear pet shop or what they view a poor quality Betta as it does to rear high quality and while that is true, whos to say one is better quality than the other or more worthy...Just because one cost more doesn't make it better-I have seen many Betta on aquabid with high price tag that are of poor quality or better term...didn't meet IBC standards. You will not find the perfect Betta-they all have some faults be it minor, major or disqualifying....

You will always have the "Nay sayer" when it come to pet shop and VT Betta breeding. Usually they are IBC oriented or a breeder themselves and would rather you buy from them-nothing wrong with that either by the way. We have some fine breeder on this site. But whos to say they are right and you are wrong in your choice of a starting pair to spawn.

Since the IBC doesn't have a standard for the VT-they are frowned upon. My understanding of why the VT doesn't have IBC standard is due to the VT being difficult to fix the fin to meet a standards-but I am not 100% sure on that-
Since the other tail types have become more popular the Betta that started the Betta craze to begin with has been set on the back shelf...so-to-speak....Had it not been for the long fin VT we wouldn't have the tail types we have today....The Veiltail was the start of it all.....

The biggest problem with any tail type with or without known genetic history is...What to do with the offspring......IMO-you should be breeding for quality not quantity anyway and should cull hard regardless of the breeders you start with.

IMO-nothing wrong with starting with pet shop Betta, VT or even mixing tail types-But you need a plan for what you are going to do with the offspring and a goal to work towards-even if its to gain experience to find out if this is something you want to get more serious about.

Last edited by Oldfishlady; 07-23-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #7 
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I agree with OFL It depends on goals entirely
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:44 AM   #8 
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Wow, OFL, you really shed a new light on the whole perspective on the topic. My main agenda, if I do not have well-bred betta's by Christmas is to breed the petstore variety, only if I feel that I'm completley prepared and have enough knowledge behind me.

My main aim though, for my first spawn is just to have some good, sucessful fry in it, even if they are just VT's. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the breed, espically if they are the 'Grandfather' of all other tail types. I see that more of a better reason to breed, so that to understand the makeup of other tail breeds by effectivley breeding VT's.

I would definitly though have to cull some, and depending on how much I estimate to have left after some MAJOR culling. I would keep the best VT's, but I only plan on raising the spawn if I have 5 or more interested buyers or people that I can trust to give them away to. I have a few people already in mind. One of whom also owns fish.

In the worst-case scenario, if I was to breed these VT's and still not have enough people to buy them, or if they were poor standard fish (VERY poor standard btw) and no-one wanted them, I would have temporary homes set up at my house and I would keep them at my nan's house.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:40 AM   #9 
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Not sure but I think IBC doesn't have a standard for VT because they mostly come out the same - form wise. Unbalanced fin lengths and general form ..... difficult to group positive or negative. Thus IBC made the spade form caudal to be a standard .... something that will not be passed on to every VT and, IMO, will only be shown when young.

If you do breed VT, concentrate on color and pattern - what color and patterns are favored or rare in your area. I wouldn't suggest going for IBC standard VT since most people will only look for colorful fish - too much work on your part.

Learn color genetics as best you can so you can choose which color/s to start with. This will also be helpful when you decide to work with modern forms - whether petstore betta or quality breeder.

I have nothing against breeding petstore bettas as long as you know what to look for (form and color). And above all - make a plan. Do not breed unless you know your fry has future homes to go to.

Good luck.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:07 PM   #10 
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Thanks indjo! Not many people are supportive of Pet Store betta's (nothing against them) but it's good to see encouragement.

I know that alot of people in my local area are interested in either marble/butterfly. They are usually first to go in the Pet Stores as well.

I'm currently studying the genetics and such of form, and colour. I also don't plan to breed unless I'm certain I know everything and I have a few homes lined up, or I know a pet store that will take in my fish.
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