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Old 10-18-2012, 07:53 AM   #21 
indjo
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What's up with these clear finned bettas I'm seeing on aquabid? Is it an all new mutation, or is it a result of very strict breeding of whichever gene does that? (I'd like to know which gene is involved if you know)
I'm not sure how they exactly work. But it is genetic - thus it's safe to say that they were bred for that (clear fins). Personally I'm not a fan of clear fins and always try to breed it out. But I do like milk-white fins, whether in butterfly pattern or just plain. And because I've had clear fins since my early years, I can say that they're not new.

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I haven't really read into crossing butterflys and marbles, is that what you would get, a butterfly marble?
Both are dominant - they will appear for generations to come. Butterfly being the white/clear color at the end of the fins while marble is the jumping genes. IMO yes you will have both traits if you cross them (never actually crossed them - not a fan of marbles).

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Let me see if I'm understanding that somewhat correctly. It's as if royal blue is similar to having 4 genes instead of 2? (I'm not saying that literally, just for the sake of understanding.)
You could say that. ..... actually genes work in pairs. So a royal has a hetero-(one pair consist or 2 different alleles) gene while turquoise and steel blue have mono- (their pair consist of the same allele)

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I want to create my own line, but I don't want all the work done for me, but at the same time I certainly don't want to create a new mutation. I'm thinking one parent with the fancy genes, and one without. Would that be an okay place to start?
Yes that should work - IF you can't find 2 multi fancies (it would be easier to work with). If no offspring shows the pattern you desire, then breed back to parent.

Keep in mind that the genetic equation will not be like the theory. As far as I know fully grown females could lay up to 1300 (maybe more - I counted fry, not eggs). Assuming 1000 fry is 100% of the genetic equation, but only 100 fry survive - so which gene combo survived. I'm not trying to put you off, but this is something you need to be prepared for when expecting something specific. And this is why I say working with a pair of desired color/pattern is better than using only one...... another reason why determining genetic outcomes are confusing.

@MoonsandOwl: That is very rare - The best explanation I can think of is that every part of a betta is actually made up of tons of cells, each carrying its own code. Perhaps (wild guess) one side dominantly shows a turquoise code while the other side shows blue. Remember, a betta with pure genes is IMO non existent or very rare. But it is possible if you keep breeding for them.

@Sena; vibrant yellow and orange are rare. They usually come in a rather pale shade.
Dragons are said to be dominant. But IME dragon x non dragon = non dragon and partial dragon (percentage depends on how strong the dragon genes are). You need to inbreed offspring with dragon scales or breed back to parent.

PS:
Crowntaillover; Sorry I forgot what I originally wanted to explain. So instead I just answered your other questions.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:00 AM   #22 
Sena Hansler
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Indjo you're awesome :) it's true I noticed orange has "vanished" once again in my area :/ even pale yellow is slowly disappearing.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:23 PM   #23 
crowntaillove
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Originally Posted by indjo View Post
I'm not sure how they exactly work. But it is genetic - thus it's safe to say that they were bred for that (clear fins). Personally I'm not a fan of clear fins and always try to breed it out. But I do like milk-white fins, whether in butterfly pattern or just plain. And because I've had clear fins since my early years, I can say that they're not new.


Both are dominant - they will appear for generations to come. Butterfly being the white/clear color at the end of the fins while marble is the jumping genes. IMO yes you will have both traits if you cross them (never actually crossed them - not a fan of marbles).


You could say that. ..... actually genes work in pairs. So a royal has a hetero-(one pair consist or 2 different alleles) gene while turquoise and steel blue have mono- (their pair consist of the same allele)


Yes that should work - IF you can't find 2 multi fancies (it would be easier to work with). If no offspring shows the pattern you desire, then breed back to parent.

Keep in mind that the genetic equation will not be like the theory. As far as I know fully grown females could lay up to 1300 (maybe more - I counted fry, not eggs). Assuming 1000 fry is 100% of the genetic equation, but only 100 fry survive - so which gene combo survived. I'm not trying to put you off, but this is something you need to be prepared for when expecting something specific. And this is why I say working with a pair of desired color/pattern is better than using only one...... another reason why determining genetic outcomes are confusing.

@MoonsandOwl: That is very rare - The best explanation I can think of is that every part of a betta is actually made up of tons of cells, each carrying its own code. Perhaps (wild guess) one side dominantly shows a turquoise code while the other side shows blue. Remember, a betta with pure genes is IMO non existent or very rare. But it is possible if you keep breeding for them.

@Sena; vibrant yellow and orange are rare. They usually come in a rather pale shade.
Dragons are said to be dominant. But IME dragon x non dragon = non dragon and partial dragon (percentage depends on how strong the dragon genes are). You need to inbreed offspring with dragon scales or breed back to parent.

PS:
Crowntaillover; Sorry I forgot what I originally wanted to explain. So instead I just answered your other questions.
My email didn't notify me that you replied! I thought you had given up on me. :P I've always thought about the genetic equation, when I found the first fry in my tank dead, I thought "well, shoot he was probably going to be the exact perfect betta of my dreams." So, I'm prepared for that.

I'm not in a postion to have several spawns/lines going on at once, so maybe I'll just responsibly breed to gain experience until I'm good and ready to start.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:51 PM   #24 
indjo
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Originally Posted by crowntaillove View Post
My email didn't notify me that you replied! I thought you had given up on me. :P I've always thought about the genetic equation, when I found the first fry in my tank dead, I thought "well, shoot he was probably going to be the exact perfect betta of my dreams." So, I'm prepared for that.

I'm not in a postion to have several spawns/lines going on at once, so maybe I'll just responsibly breed to gain experience until I'm good and ready to start.
NEVER!!! Lol
Seriously, as long as I at least have an opinion or knowledge of other breeder's experience, I will always try to explain. BUT on occasion I do forget (short memory), specially if the thread has been pushed down. So if I do forget - feel free to remind me through PM or bump the thread.

Yes it's always a good idea to start with one color group instead of working with several different colors.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:58 AM   #25 
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Breeding does give you valuable experience that even a ton of research cannot give. Plus then, you can figure out which methods work for you - I found the shock method easier, a 10 gallon a perfect size, etc
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:15 PM   #26 
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NEVER!!! Lol
Seriously, as long as I at least have an opinion or knowledge of other breeder's experience, I will always try to explain. BUT on occasion I do forget (short memory), specially if the thread has been pushed down. So if I do forget - feel free to remind me through PM or bump the thread.

Yes it's always a good idea to start with one color group instead of working with several different colors.
My males slipped the dividers a few days ago, and when I came home from work, they seemed to be taking a break from fighting, so I'm guessing they had been going at it a while. :/ His fins are shorter but he still flares around like he's the king of the world. I'm noticing a lot more red in his fins that I ever have before, but man is he a gorgeous shade of blue. It's like metallic sky blue. I love it!

How long should I wait to breed him now since he got into a fight?
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:18 PM   #27 
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I would say as long as he does not have wounds, and you allow him to heal up any missing scales, and start some regrowth on his fins (basically a "no chance of infection" regrowth) he should be fine :) depends on how long it takes him to heal.
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:05 AM   #28 
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My males slipped the dividers a few days ago, and when I came home from work, they seemed to be taking a break from fighting, so I'm guessing they had been going at it a while. :/ His fins are shorter but he still flares around like he's the king of the world. I'm noticing a lot more red in his fins that I ever have before, but man is he a gorgeous shade of blue. It's like metallic sky blue. I love it!

How long should I wait to breed him now since he got into a fight?
As long as he is active and healthy, you can breed him
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