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Old 10-28-2012, 02:07 AM   #21 
indjo
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IME 72 is too low. I suggest 76 to be the lowest. Below that I always have problems. High limit is about 87.8. Above that they will survive but become odd. Both high and low limits are ok as long as they don't fluctuate. 82 is ideal. Remember that bettas will adapt if the temp is not too far off.

@afishpond; if you feel 72 works for you, fine. But since they're not hatching or perhaps are taking too long to hatch, try raising the temp and see if you get better results. Further, since you've successfully bred in very low temp, compare sex outcome - do you have more male or female in low temp, what percentage do you get in higher temp.

Looking forward to hearing more of your spawn.
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:51 AM   #22 
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this was take from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Betta splendens)Betta Species also prefer a warmer water climate than other tropical fish - around 25-30 Degrees Celsius.(77-86 Degrees Fahrenheit). B. splendens can reach sexual maturity at an age as early as 4-5 months,so i think that i found what happen to them both male that didn't spawn are onlt 3 1/2 mo. old .So nexy time rasie temp.up and use older males frist was about 5 mo. and did great.thx all for help.guess i have cold water bettas .
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:25 AM   #23 
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Some mature faster than others - so some can be bred at 3 months of age. But I wouldn't suggest it. I still hold the opinion that 5 months is best. . . unless you have certain plans, like crossing fry to parents.

For future reference, try understanding their behavior. How they swim when they mean to fight and how they swim when they want to breed. That way you can determine when you can breed them - even at young age.
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:19 PM   #24 
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indjo thx yes I understand that more now ,this was more of a fight for the male bad thing was both females tried help with nest staying com and still but the 2 males would have it . but i did watch the frist male a lot and it was diffent with him frist day some fighting next day the breeding was on.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:15 PM   #25 
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Low temps will slow the hatch rate. Now as for the low end of bettas temps. I have kept bettas outside and they did fine when night time temps dropped to the low 40's. High end bettas can survive temps over 98.

Not sure if any of you have lived in the tropics, but I lived most of my life in tropical conditions near the equator. Temps can get in the 100's and go as low as the 60s.

http://www.thailand.climatemps.com/

Here you can see that the temps go as high as 95* and as low as 68*. OMG all the bettas are extinct in Thailand according to the lot of you.

Other factors you have not considered; Typhoons and other weather conditions can bring those temps even lower. In my life time I have been through many category 5 super typhoons. The temperature drops significantly. Add to the fact that thousands of gallons of water are falling from the sky and mixing into the bettas habitat, you will find a big drop in temperatures.

Don't mistake ideal conditions of aquariums with the reality of nature. Regurgitating what you read in a book or online doesn't replace experience.

In this particular situation you probably had an infertile male. If the water was too cold the bettas would not have bothered to spawn. Sudden drops in temperature usually triggers the spawning response. In nature this occurs when it rains. In the forest, rain fall brings new sources of food by knocking insects out of trees and washing food down stream from other sources of water. Other indicators such as changes in PH and water hardness also trigger spawning. Proof of this can be seen by bettas themselves. Drops in barometric pressure triggers bubble nest building. This instinctual behavior by bettas occur because they know that drops in barometric pressure is a precursor to rain. Rain brings more food which means higher survival rates for fry.
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:23 AM   #26 
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@goldfishyman: That is very true, in nature temp drops or rises dramatically. But they have places where temp are fairly stable - say the deeper end of the water or something. In nature only the fittest survive. But our bettas are in captivity and aren't used to dramatic changes. And we advise the best way we know how to keep as many alive and healthy as possible.

I live in the tropics. in a coastal city. Temp do get very high at times during the dry season and quite cool during the wet season. My bettas are out side under a shade, so my tubs and tanks do fluctuate. The water is generally around 28C, but it can reach 31C or low 25C. They survive. But under 25C for long periods, they have problems, hardly move, won't eat, etc. And this causes other problems like easily infected by bacteria or other types of parasites. High temps for long periods (hardly ever) makes them swim awkwardly and as if they can't breath.

There is no right nor wrong way of keeping/breeding them. Every one has his/her own way. Mine can't thrive under 25C for long periods (over 2 weeks) but people who live in cooler areas where temp (out side) get as low as 15C at night can still keep and breed them. That's why I say bettas will adapt to their environment.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:04 AM   #27 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indjo View Post
@goldfishyman: That is very true, in nature temp drops or rises dramatically. But they have places where temp are fairly stable - say the deeper end of the water or something. In nature only the fittest survive. But our bettas are in captivity and aren't used to dramatic changes. And we advise the best way we know how to keep as many alive and healthy as possible.

I live in the tropics. in a coastal city. Temp do get very high at times during the dry season and quite cool during the wet season. My bettas are out side under a shade, so my tubs and tanks do fluctuate. The water is generally around 28C, but it can reach 31C or low 25C. They survive. But under 25C for long periods, they have problems, hardly move, won't eat, etc. And this causes other problems like easily infected by bacteria or other types of parasites. High temps for long periods (hardly ever) makes them swim awkwardly and as if they can't breath.

There is no right nor wrong way of keeping/breeding them. Every one has his/her own way. Mine can't thrive under 25C for long periods (over 2 weeks) but people who live in cooler areas where temp (out side) get as low as 15C at night can still keep and breed them. That's why I say bettas will adapt to their environment.
I had 2 bettas outdoors in a 10 gallon. They did alright even when the temps would drop to 42*F at night. In the day time as the water heated up they would come out and do their normal activities. I'll admit they were abit sluggish and hid a lot in the leaves I had in the tank to conserve energy and heat when the temps began remaining constantly in the low 50's during the day.

Your right though long term low temps will have an effect on them because of slowed metabolism which means loss of apatite, less activity etc. People getting mad at the OP for insisting that 72* is way too low for his fish was just uncalled for. It gets 72* and colder during the raining season in tropical locations. Monsoons are common in these locals. Rain can occur for months at a time without stopping. In captivity, clean water is the main issue for diseases.

As for temps, higher temps means lower dissolved oxygen. Not a problem for bettas, they can come to the surface and breath. At lower temps there is more dissolved Oxygen, but as temps drop even lower, ammonia and nitrites become more toxic. The reason bettas thrive in environments that are stagnant is that they are usually in waters with really low PH. The lower PH neutralizes ammonia by making it inert ammonium. That's why people in Thailand use indian almond leaves. Lower PH has the benefit of killing off most bacteria. I put a dead fish in a tank with PH 6.6. After 5 weeks, I removed the dead fish from the tank. Under normal conditions, there would be no dead fish to remove. At a PH of 6.6 the fish was still fully intact. There was no foul odor that you would normally get from rotting flesh. I believe an even lower PH is necessary to keep bettas disease free. This would negate the low temps causing disease.

You can test this theory by putting a wounded betta in low PH water. The wounds or even torn fins will heal faster because the injury is not subject to bacterial infections that would pull resources away from rebuilding damaged tissue. Use of Indian almond reduces PH and releases tanins that have anti-fungal properties.

For the record, 72* is not even close to the low range for causing diseases in bettas.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:30 AM   #28 
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Quote:
As for temps, higher temps means lower dissolved oxygen. Not a problem for bettas, they can come to the surface and breath. At lower temps there is more dissolved Oxygen, but as temps drop even lower, ammonia and nitrites become more toxic. The reason bettas thrive in environments that are stagnant is that they are usually in waters with really low PH. The lower PH neutralizes ammonia by making it inert ammonium. That's why people in Thailand use indian almond leaves. Lower PH has the benefit of killing off most bacteria. I put a dead fish in a tank with PH 6.6. After 5 weeks, I removed the dead fish from the tank. Under normal conditions, there would be no dead fish to remove. At a PH of 6.6 the fish was still fully intact. There was no foul odor that you would normally get from rotting flesh. I believe an even lower PH is necessary to keep bettas disease free. This would negate the low temps causing disease.
Thank you for explaining that. I may know about breeding but I definitely don't understand water. I do things mainly by experience. And my saying 72F is too low is also from my experience. But like I said, they do adapt to their environment.

I know about IAL but I never had pH going under 7 though the water is very dark brown. So I never thought they made that much difference (on pH). Nowadays I use IAL for medical purposes only. I find that bettas accustomed to IAL will not react to them when they're sick. I will definitely try the theory and hopefully solve some wet season problems.
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:26 PM   #29 
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all i can say is wow ,i keep my bettas in a 1 gal.jar's on heat they all have plant's flaoter and naja grass or something like it and snails and look very happy i do over feed at times they stay in 72 to 77 temp some times down to 68 . i think for the males were just to young to do the job and females may have been to going to hold them till they are 5 mo. old see what happens then.May make some oak leaf tea as richard uses to breed with or what i call black water i make from almond leaf's and oak leaf's and green water this works for me when.You just the male in it for about 5 day's befor starting the breeding.any way's i know temp wasn't it .thx guy's for all the info.oh look's like frist spawn of red,white and blue male to red and white dragon has about 30 still and they look great 2 weeks old now.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:20 AM   #30 
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#1 spawn is doing great but only thing I see may be going with the low temp. spawn is they are growing slow to me 3 weeks old about 1/4 to half maybe and don't as must as they would in warmer water.
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