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Old 11-05-2012, 04:28 PM   #1 
thatparkerboy
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Question Super Black HM x Salamander HM - Have pair. What will happen?

Hello, all. I am curious as to the outcome of the fry of these two. As you can see in one picture, the super black has a little bit of a blue gene in him. In your best opinion, what do you think the fry will look like? What is your critique?

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:05 PM   #2 
indjo
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I'm not really sure of this because I don't know their actual codes. But if SB is paired to irid, it will mostly become orchid. And since salamanders carry blue and red in the least, they should produce orchid multi (red fins). Different shades of salamander multi. Not sure what else.

If you have non red females, I'd pair him to a non red color. You may need to clean out dominant colors (blue/irid and red) so it would be easier if there were only one color to breed out.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:15 PM   #3 
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Thanks for the reply. I see what you mean though. I was hoping for a lavender body and black fins with a white outline. I guess now I really know that red is dominant. Well this is the other female I have coming in the mail. I hope to use both females on this male and then breed both sets of fry together. Hoping for the best.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #4 
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Hmmm . . . I've never seen that combination and don't know how you could produce such mutation.

Female #2 looks copper which basically is steel blue + metallic. So you will still produce orchids. Inbreed the orchids to regain SB - probably achieved in F3-4. The copper may throw some black copper (not sure) - mine just spawned - 2 to 3 months before I could see their actual out come.

Notice how female #2 dorsal is leaning to the back due to short front rays. You want long front dorsal rays so it at least looks up right (you want them to lean forward). So look out for those in F1 to continue your line.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:40 PM   #5 
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Wow, man. You've got some great information. I would like to stay in contact with you. What does SB stand for? The first female has some fin damage from a previous breeder, so the white isn't so defined. I noticed that as well on the 2nd female. In the USA it is rare for a breeder to have the nice black spray on the dorsal. Which I would like to have in a Black Copper. The exact color is what got my eye, orchid with the black. Does breeding with solid whites or basically "blanks" help with keeping a design on a fish while improving fins down the line?
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:16 PM   #6 
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Sorry for the delay

SB = super black. Black coppers with distinctive black fins are rare any where, not only in the USA. The first blackish copper I saw was from a copper x orchid cross. Their color were more black than copper. But the first dark copper - black copper I noticed appeared after the black dragon. So I'm guessing the black copper I have in mind or what I think you mean has something to do with black dragons - metallic dark copper body with blacker fins.

Crossing to a white, cellophane or any light color will not be "neutral" since each of those colors carry different genetic codes. They will ruin your quest in creating black finned bettas. You best bet is to keep breeding black copper, black dragon, and super black.

I've noticed that dragons work differently to regular colors. I'm still trying to figure out how to manipulate the combos they throw. Problem is, I don't know their exact genetic codes. So I'm mainly guessing at the moment.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:46 AM   #7 
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Haha yes!! That is what I should do! Black coppers, dragons, and super blacks. I'm pretty obsessed. I'm already thinking the lines from this could go on and on. And I'm interested in the dragons but I haven't made it to owning one yet. Their metallic scales are such a plus.
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