Betta Fish Care  
Go Back   Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care > Betta Fish Bowls, Habitats, and Accessories
Check out the eBook Betta Fish Care Made Easy
betta fish
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-21-2012, 08:39 PM   #51 
carbonxxkidd
Member
 
carbonxxkidd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Eagan, Minnesota
I'm sorry if this question has already been asked, I will admit I did not read this entire thread. I am cycling a 5 gallon tank that was set up on Sunday. I just did a 30% water change today - water only. My question is, should I wait to vacuum the gravel until my tank is fully cycled or is it okay to go ahead and do that with every water change?

I'm also not sure if I should wait until I am getting ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings to do water changes? I used the strips to test today (that's all I have) and everything came back 0...but I did a water change anyway because I figured the fish would like it.

Edit:

Nevermind, I just read the original posting and all of my questions were answered. LOL. Sorry, and thanks OFL for the info :)

Last edited by carbonxxkidd; 11-21-2012 at 08:47 PM.
carbonxxkidd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 10:22 AM   #52 
Oldfishlady
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendyjo View Post
It's always best to do a fishless cycle when possible - ANY detectable amount of ammonia is harmful. I realize that sometimes people get in a situation where they have no choice but to do a cycle using fish, but I see no reason to encourage this outdated practice, especially with a betta.
No matter what you have your Betta in....It will produce byproducts and water changes will be needed. The hobby grade test products only test at a PPM level and so you will always have some level of Ammonia in the system.
Fish in general have natural protection from the slime coat and can tolerate much higher levels of ammonia than given credit.
The amount of ammonia exposed during the cycling process shouldn't be anymore than what they are exposed to on a regular bases between water changes and/or the time line of the BB consuming it.

The only difference in cycling and not...is the bacteria you are colonizing. Its a natural process that occurs in a tank when the bacteria needs are met. These bacteria are self limiting to the-food source, oxygen and surface area. By understanding the bacteria involved in the cycling process-will help you understand how cycling with a Betta can be safe.

With that said, it is best to fish-less cycle for community tanks-due to the limiting factors of the BB
Oldfishlady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 04:10 PM   #53 
finnfinnfriend
Member
 
finnfinnfriend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
What if there is ammonia in the tap water?
finnfinnfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 04:42 PM   #54 
LittleBettaFish
Member
 
LittleBettaFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
You can use a water conditioner like Seachem Prime, which will detoxify the ammonia. If your tank is cycled, your bacteria should be able to use the now detoxified ammonia.

I'm not sure what you would do if not, as I believe Seachem only binds ammonia for around a 24-48 hour or so period. After that I don't know what happens as to whether you would then have toxic ammonia floating around in your tank.
LittleBettaFish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 01:23 AM   #55 
finnfinnfriend
Member
 
finnfinnfriend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
That's why I was asking in this thread. Because I wanted to know what to do if you are cycling and have ammonia in your tap water.
finnfinnfriend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 10:29 AM   #56 
Oldfishlady
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Depending on the ammonia level of the source water-Prime will neutralize the ammonia and then the BB will take care of the ammonium just like it will ammonia. Depending on the starting ammonia level, how mature the tank...etc.... you may need to add the ammonia neutralizer to the tank every 48h until the BB can take care of it.
Oldfishlady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 10:56 AM   #57 
ChoclateBetta
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Virginia
I have heard of bettas living years in ammonia. Would not surprise me if they can survive using fish for cycling. I have done it twice but never want to do it again.
ChoclateBetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 11:47 AM   #58 
Wendyjo
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
No matter what you have your Betta in....It will produce byproducts and water changes will be needed. The hobby grade test products only test at a PPM level and so you will always have some level of Ammonia in the system.
Fish in general have natural protection from the slime coat and can tolerate much higher levels of ammonia than given credit.
The amount of ammonia exposed during the cycling process shouldn't be anymore than what they are exposed to on a regular bases between water changes and/or the time line of the BB consuming it.

The only difference in cycling and not...is the bacteria you are colonizing. Its a natural process that occurs in a tank when the bacteria needs are met. These bacteria are self limiting to the-food source, oxygen and surface area. By understanding the bacteria involved in the cycling process-will help you understand how cycling with a Betta can be safe.

With that said, it is best to fish-less cycle for community tanks-due to the limiting factors of the BB
I understand exactly how the nitrogen cycle works - I've cycled quite a few tanks over my lifetime, both large and small. And I agree with you that there will always be trace amounts of ammonia in the tank. But I stand by what I said regarding exposing the fish, especially a betta, to the amount of ammonia that can be detected by a standard Nessler test AND exposing it to nitrite. Using Prime helps, but unless a more sophisticated test system is used (and they are available for around the same price as a Nessler test), there is no way for the average hobbyist doing a cycle for the first time to understand how much of that total ammonia reading is harmful and how much isn't, especially when you throw Ph into the mix. And as far as I know, all nitrite is harmful.

It's well established that exposure to toxic ammonia as well as nitrite can cause stress and both short term and long term health issues in fish. And with their long, flowing fins, bettas are especially susceptible to problems such as fin rot which is often a direct result of poor water quality and stress. For this reason I just don't see a reason to encourage fish-in cycles when fishless cycles are so easy to do (especially these days when there are products available that contain the correct species of bacteria to get the job done quickly) during which time the betta can be safely housed in another container getting frequent water changes to keep the ammonia at 0 and keep nitrite completely out of the equation.
Wendyjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #59 
ChoclateBetta
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Virginia
They can detect it if you check an ammonia there is a safe range on it.
ChoclateBetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 11:52 AM   #60 
ChoclateBetta
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Virginia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendyjo View Post
I understand exactly how the nitrogen cycle works - I've cycled quite a few tanks over my lifetime, both large and small. And I agree with you that there will always be trace amounts of ammonia in the tank. But I stand by what I said regarding exposing the fish, especially a betta, to the amount of ammonia that can be detected by a standard Nessler test AND exposing it to nitrite. Using Prime helps, but unless a more sophisticated test system is used (and they are available for around the same price as a Nessler test), there is no way for the average hobbyist doing a cycle for the first time to understand how much of that total ammonia reading is harmful and how much isn't, especially when you throw Ph into the mix. And as far as I know, all nitrite is harmful.

It's well established that exposure to toxic ammonia as well as nitrite can cause stress and both short term and long term health issues in fish. And with their long, flowing fins, bettas are especially susceptible to problems such as fin rot which is often a direct result of poor water quality and stress. For this reason I just don't see a reason to encourage fish-in cycles when fishless cycles are so easy to do (especially these days when there are products available that contain the correct species of bacteria to get the job done quickly) during which time the betta can be safely housed in another container getting frequent water changes to keep the ammonia at 0 and keep nitrite completely out of the equation.
But in very tiny amounts it is safe. Nitrate is toxic to fish in large amounts.
ChoclateBetta is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help me!!! The nitrogen cycle AaryonN Betta Fish Bowls, Habitats, and Accessories 4 08-06-2010 11:22 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.