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Old 12-22-2012, 04:51 AM   #1 
Tikibirds
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Pineconning causes

Are there any other causes of pineconning, other then internal organ failure?

What size is your tank? 20G
What temperature is your tank? 78
Does your tank have a filter? yes
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? yes
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? 5 bettas, rabbit snails, nerite snail, 2 clown plecos

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Omega one flakes or new life spectrum pellets but she loves the algae waffers >.<
How often do you feed your betta fish? 1X a day

Maintenance

How often do you perform a water change? 1X a week
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? 25-50%
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Stress coat, seachem flouish and some carbon 1X a week

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH: 7.8
Hardness:
Alkalinity:

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? pineconned - not clamped, no swollen eyes, no other symptoms
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? Behavior is nomal
When did you start noticing the symptoms? she was fine when I went to work, hrs later she was pineconned
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? epsom, furan 2 and metrodozinal soaked pellets
Does your fish have any history of being ill? no
How old is your fish (approximately)? Several months old

Last edited by Tikibirds; 12-22-2012 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:37 AM   #2 
moonsand0wls
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It's usually brought on by internal parasite infections. That may either be from what you are feeding it, or if you have introduced anything new into the tank (plants, other fish ETC).
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:50 AM   #3 
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Could she be egg bound?
Had a girl w/ your symptoms right after failed spawn...mine didn't make it but I also had no metronizole on hand :(
I hope yours does better.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:46 AM   #4 
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Clow pleco and the nertite are kinda new but they were in QT for over a month. I do sometimes feed frozen brine shrimp or bloodworms. Never live foods.

I just checked on her - she looks the same.

I don't think being eggy causes pineconning
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:22 AM   #5 
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Actually, if a betta is quite fat the scales might stick out. Teeneythebetta here a user actually had this problem. It turns out her betta was just eggy, it should go away soon. If you want to, you can separate her with a breeder's net/box and observe. But IMO, as long as she's acting fine, there should be no reason to worry.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #6 
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Lebron that's not true at all. Pine coning is a fluid build up under the skin. Bettas can be very fat/round and even have HUGE stomachs and still not be pine coned.

I would test the water. Dropsy caused by internal infections of bacterial or parasite in nature and/or organ failure - I say and because internal infections can cause organ failure. The initial cause is most commonly poor water conditions so I would check yours to be sure. Otherwise it can be bad food or chronic constipation turned infection, old age, toxins in the tank (not necessarily related to the nitrate cycle) or just poor genetics.

Epsoms are good. Furan 2 has some potential to work but if you can find Kanaplex or Maracyn Plus I'd switch to that. Treat for at least 2 weeks, and at least one week past when she looks totally in the clear. If you stop too early you have a high risk of it coming back.

I would try to switch her entirely to the NLS pellets and not feed flakes.. 5-8 split up twice a day and one fast day a week. Obviously, it would be better to keep her away from the algae wafers, but I know that's hard to do in a community tank. Eating a small amount is not a problem. However, according to OFL overheating algae feed can cause bloating issues and that can lead to things like dropsy.. You might want to separate during feeding to prevent this problem from coming up again.\

Good luck!

Last edited by callistra; 12-22-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:43 PM   #7 
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I know that we tend to change water a lot...but PLEASE remember that a 20g (with live plants) is not the same as a 2.5g or a 5g even. If you remove 50% of the water EVERY week...or more....you can potentially destroy the cycle you hopefully have! A fully cycled tank should have no more than a 25% water change...and less works better...every 1 to 2 weeks. There really is such a thing as going overboard with water changes.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:13 PM   #8 
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The reason for the extra water changes is the 2 plecos and snails - they poop ALOT. Most of the bacteria lives in the filter media, not the water itself.
There are live plants but it's not even 1/2 the tank.
As per OFL's Directions
Quote:
10+gal with a filter
Weekly 50% with vacuum
Filter media needs a swish/rinse in old tank water a couple of times a month.
I only got the Omega one flakes 2 or so days ago. I though it was pellets but no, it was flakes.

I feed the algae waffers at night but - they always seem to find them. I'm thinking there is enough stuff in there for the snails to eat without the algae and this species of pleco, from what I understand, isn't really much of an algae eater. I tried cucumber and zucchini but no one ever touched it

The only way to gt kanaplex is to order online. Maracyn plus I might be able to find. Maybe.

Last edited by Tikibirds; 12-22-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:17 PM   #9 
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50% water change isn't going to hurt anything. The bacteria is build into the filter and substrate. No worries you're not hurting anything by doing that, although it typically won't be necessary.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:31 PM   #10 
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All most all of the good bacteria lives in the filter - it wouldn't matter if you done 100% water changes. Sure, it would upset the water levels a little bit, but nothing dramatic.

3/4 water changes might be what's best, then.
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