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Old 01-14-2013, 03:50 PM   #11 
louisvillelady
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I read that article years ago, and took the practice of leaving the male in with the fry. While it is true that there are instances of "bad fathers", I sometimes wonder how many times this is once again our misinterpretation of what is truly going on. I have one example. I had a beautiful Double ray platinum male. Simply gorgeous! I mated him with another platinum female, and he ate the eggs. I blamed it on him being young and inexperienced. I tried him again. Again, he ate the eggs. So I wondered if maybe there was something wrong with the eggs, so bought another female. Spawned them, he ate the eggs! DANG! such a beautiful fish, and he is an egg eater! about six months go by, and at a fish club meeting, while talking about this, I happen to find out the two females were actually cousins. On a hunch, I bought another female, and had total success! I even left him in with the fry. So sometimes when we "think" their is something wrong, what is really "wrong" is our interpretation of the animals behavior. I loved Halo, may he rip. He taught me soo much and was one of my best fathers.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:54 PM   #12 
GhostFeather
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Maybe this shoud be moved to the spawn logs,actually started out as a question,just want to keep anyone interested,the progress of this.
I just turned out the lights,he is still just swimming around checking out the fry.
I feed them all a few hours ago,did not really notice anything out of the ordinary.
The Amonnia level is still around 0,since I am feeding him a couple of times a day,I will check it each day.
Hope atb some point I can put up some pics,right now they are still small and the tank is kinda dark from the tannins.
Bill
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:11 PM   #13 
Sena Hansler
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I have had two males in any of my spawns who could have been left in with the fry. VERY good fathers! Others were so-so, and I seem to get the rotten pick of bad fathers... Though recently it has turned around.
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So sometimes when we "think" their is something wrong, what is really "wrong" is our interpretation of the animals behavior.
It's true. I used the same female to teach all my males, and they all ate the eggs. She was a dud - as is my cambodian. Which I will make double sure by checking with another male and her. The fry die or the father eats the eggs... She is a definite dud.

Really to be able to try, you have to learn through trial and error. Allowing enough coverage for fry to hide is essential as well, in case he is a rotten daddy.

Last edited by Sena Hansler; 01-14-2013 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:58 AM   #14 
indjo
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How would you know what type you have without risking the fry? I suppose if you watch very carefully, but I'd be terrified to leave them at night personally.
There is really no way of knowing until we see the male's behavior. But if he doesn't eat the eggs and you have lots of free swimming fry, it should be safe to think of him as a good father. Usually bad fathers will eat eggs before they hatch or fry before they become free swimming, but occasionally they do eat fry after all that.

Quote:
I read that article years ago, and took the practice of leaving the male in with the fry. While it is true that there are instances of "bad fathers", I sometimes wonder how many times this is once again our misinterpretation of what is truly going on. I have one example. I had a beautiful Double ray platinum male. Simply gorgeous! I mated him with another platinum female, and he ate the eggs. I blamed it on him being young and inexperienced. I tried him again. Again, he ate the eggs. So I wondered if maybe there was something wrong with the eggs, so bought another female. Spawned them, he ate the eggs! DANG! such a beautiful fish, and he is an egg eater! about six months go by, and at a fish club meeting, while talking about this, I happen to find out the two females were actually cousins. On a hunch, I bought another female, and had total success! I even left him in with the fry. So sometimes when we "think" their is something wrong, what is really "wrong" is our interpretation of the animals behavior. I loved Halo, may he rip. He taught me soo much and was one of my best fathers.
Sometimes they need a long rest before the next spawn to change behavior. Not sure why though - maybe it has something to do with maturity. I often give my males few chances (1-2 months interval) to prove himself before I either artificially hatch the eggs or retire him.

Congrats Bill. Hope he turns out to be a really good father.
I'll move this thread for you.
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:23 AM   #15 
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Proper conditioning would definitely increase the chances of success

Having the appropriate live plant cover for the fry & having an abundance of available live foods would make all the difference.

I don't have enough time to watch/feed 2x-3x a day in a small spawning tank.

As long as big daddy betta is well fed, plenty of space & cover for the fry to hide & it should work. I always find it hard to determine how to feed EXTRA active bettas. I want to reward them for more activity, but I know it's not good to overfeed.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:13 PM   #16 
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Now the only question is (and I'm also very curious)....how many days can the father be safely left with the fry after hatching???

I'm really dying to try this on my next spawn.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:18 PM   #17 
Sena Hansler
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I have seen some very experienced people on here have some fathers in with the fry until the fry begin to challenge each other.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:42 PM   #18 
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I think some fish are naturally great fathers. I have had a few egg eaters, but as they don't do it compulsively, I am inclined to think they do it either because the eggs are bad, or the conditions are not conductive to rearing fry (they might feel threatened by too much movement outside the tank for example).

Some of my fathers have only been great at the egg/newly hatched fry tending phase and tend to lose interest or eat their fry, once they become free-swimming. Whereas, other dads have been very fastidious in tending the nest and then rearing the fry. Usually the dad will completely ignore his fry once they are around a week old, and then not pay much attention to them until they become big enough to be noticeable.

I have one excellent father here who has given me around 30 odd fry from various spawnings (yes he is a wild betta not a splendens). I moved him and his female into their own separate tank away from their adult offspring as I wanted them to spawn. After that, their adult offspring became incredibly shy and withdrawn to the point of me not being able to see them. Up until then, these fish had lived with their parents maybe for a year or so.

So I moved the parents back in yesterday afternoon and now I see all of them a lot more out and about and in full colour. I swear they must remember each other, as dad and mum were always the alpha pair in that tank.

I think with a lot of people the risk of leaving the father in with the eggs outweighs any possible benefits. Getting a successful spawn can be hard and physically challenging on fish, so most don't want to have to attempt another if they can get it right the first time.

Also I always offer my male food during the entire process. Most of the time they may snatch a bite here or there but they don't settle back down into a routine of regularly eating until the fry are free-swimming. I also feed live blackworms so they are able to live in the substrate for a longer time.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:10 PM   #19 
Maddybelle
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I left my orange HM boy in with the fry until they were 3 weeks old. He got freaked out by the new shrimp I added to help clean up, and became aggressive towards everything in the tank. Their mother is a very calm, tolerant girl, so she went into the growout with the fry (and about 3-4 generations of guppies) at 6 weeks. The babies are now 12 weeks old, about 30 are jarred, and mom is very happy!
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:16 PM   #20 
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It is 2 days with the male in with the fry,and everything is going fine.
It is really cool to see him with about a dozen fry swimming around him!
He does not seem to mind them and they don't mind him.
He just swims around the whole tank and stops every once in awhile to check them out.
I feed him a couple of times a day,he eats,then goes back to checking them out.
The amonnia level was at .25 today so I did a 50% water change and dripped in about 4 more gallons of water then what was in there to begin with,took it from 3 gallons to about 7 gallons all together.
I thought my using my syphon might stress him out a little and maybe cause him to eat the fry,I checked a couple of hours latter and everything is fine.
I am off Thursday,so I might try for a few pics,not sure how bwell they will work,but I will try,at least get a pic of him.
Bill
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