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Old 01-16-2013, 01:30 PM   #11 
Mal72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
The only difference between species of tree I have seen-is the color of tannins...I have/use about 6 different species of oak tree- with one being-what we call blackjack oak-not sure it that is the same one you are calling black oak-haven't had any problems with any species.

Black and BlackJack Oak are one and the same--after looking them up. I have a Live Oak in my yard, as well. So you just crush the leaves and put them directly into the water?
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:00 PM   #12 
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When I use Oak leaf tannins for medication-I will use a 1gal jug with dechlorinated water and add 20 more or less-crushed Oak leaves and allow them to steep for at least 30min so they can start releasing the tannins. Then I will do a gradual acclimation with the premixed tannin water.

The longer they steep-the more tannins released-the darker the water-the better the Betta likes it. The tannins can change the water chemistry and especially with a compromised fish-you want to do a slow or gradual acclimation when you first start using them and with larger water changes.

I have found with a compromised Betta in a QT for treatment using premixed treatment water-That 50% daily to every other day is all that is needed to maintain water quality. By using premixed treatment water you have more control and can provide the therapeutic dosage when making partial water changes.

I don't worry about the leaf bit that fall into the water with the Betta-often they will use these leaf bits for cover-to help make them feel more secure in a bare QT container-as well as the microorganism that can sometimes colonize on them-the Betta will pick at them for added nutrition.

I collect-naturally dried and fallen from the tree-Oak leaves-I don't rinse them, but I may shake off any extra debris.
Since Oak leaf tannin are a natural product-you can't overdose them.

To use as a general tonic-you can add them whole to the tank itself, however, when making a large water change-it is best to have the replacement water tanned before use to avoid pH shock-Long term the tannins can lower the pH.

Both IAL(Indian almond leaf) and Oak leaf tannins are 99% alike chemically-long term use can toughen fins/scales, contain antibacterial/fungal properties, ease stress and can lower pH.

How is your Betta doing-any changes....
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:13 PM   #13 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
When I use Oak leaf tannins for medication-I will use a 1gal jug with dechlorinated water and add 20 more or less-crushed Oak leaves and allow them to steep for at least 30min so they can start releasing the tannins. Then I will do a gradual acclimation with the premixed tannin water.

The longer they steep-the more tannins released-the darker the water-the better the Betta likes it. The tannins can change the water chemistry and especially with a compromised fish-you want to do a slow or gradual acclimation when you first start using them and with larger water changes.

I have found with a compromised Betta in a QT for treatment using premixed treatment water-That 50% daily to every other day is all that is needed to maintain water quality. By using premixed treatment water you have more control and can provide the therapeutic dosage when making partial water changes.

I don't worry about the leaf bit that fall into the water with the Betta-often they will use these leaf bits for cover-to help make them feel more secure in a bare QT container-as well as the microorganism that can sometimes colonize on them-the Betta will pick at them for added nutrition.

I collect-naturally dried and fallen from the tree-Oak leaves-I don't rinse them, but I may shake off any extra debris.
Since Oak leaf tannin are a natural product-you can't overdose them.

To use as a general tonic-you can add them whole to the tank itself, however, when making a large water change-it is best to have the replacement water tanned before use to avoid pH shock-Long term the tannins can lower the pH.

Both IAL(Indian almond leaf) and Oak leaf tannins are 99% alike chemically-long term use can toughen fins/scales, contain antibacterial/fungal properties, ease stress and can lower pH.

How is your Betta doing-any changes....

Thank you OFL! Omega, I will definitely check out the website, so I can have antiobiotics on standby for the future!

I've been keeping him pretty quiet lately, since I know stress would only make his condition worse. I left him completely alone (obviously checked on him) yesterday to see if he improved. He seems to be a little bit more alert today, than he was yesterday, so I might try feeding him some of the Frozen Brine Shrimp, as Callistra suggested. While feeding him, I'll allow the Oak leaves to seep. My hope is that eating will help him feel better since he has refused all other types of food for the past 7 days. My fingers are still crossed for this old boy, thank you for asking!!!
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:34 PM   #14 
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Flare ATE everybody. I put him in a small 1/2 container and tried for 1 hour to hand feed him brine shrimp after trying to chum up the water with the 'juices' (yuck!) and he very enthusiastically ate two brine shrimp!!!!! He did not eat anymore, but that was a start! I'm so happy. He actually chased my finger around!!! I have the Oak Leaves seeping and I'm about to change his water, so I hope that he will continue to improve.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:30 PM   #15 
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That's awesome! Very happy to hear :)

Let us know how the oak leaves go.. very interested in it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:51 PM   #16 
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That's awesome! Very happy to hear :)

Let us know how the oak leaves go.. very interested in it.

I will! Thank you for the suggestion to use frozen brine shrimp! That's the most action I've seen from him since he got older. I have him acclimating in a bag in the water now. The leaves mixture made the water look like a weak tea, but I guess that's okay. And I followed the directions exactly with the Epsom salt. So...fingers crossed. He is actually swimming now in the bag, so the shrimp must've livened him up a bit!

*One of my friends asked me why I didn't just flush him down the toilet and get a new fish. I guess they just don't understand how much I have grown to care about him and how much I want his last days to be as happy as possible. I did take half of their suggestion though....I did get a new fish today. 4 Bettas, 1 dog, no boyfriend. Yeehaw. Lol.

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Old 01-17-2013, 05:54 PM   #17 
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Unfortunately I do not have good news today. I was encouraged yesterday by his willingness to eat and he was also willing to eat--after some coaxing today. But I noticed his appearance had changed so I move him to a clear cup, so that I could better see his appearance (since the water is pretty dark.) It appears that his scales are slightly raised and his eyes are a bit more bugged out than usual. His stomach is also bloated....It seems that he may have Dropsy now....

What should I do?

I don't want to think about Clove Oil, but if his organs are failing.....

Last edited by Mal72; 01-17-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:17 PM   #18 
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Unfortunately I do not have good news today. I was encouraged yesterday by his willingness to eat and he was also willing to eat--after some coaxing today. But I noticed his appearance had changed so I move him to a clear cup, so that I could better see his appearance (since the water is pretty dark.) It appears that his scales are slightly raised and his eyes are a bit more bugged out than usual. His stomach is also bloated....It seems that he may have Dropsy now....

What should I do?

I don't want to think about Clove Oil, but if his organs are failing.....

I guess I want to know if I should continue with the Epsom Salt/Oak Leaves remedy and for how long? He has his age working against him...I know that.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:36 AM   #19 
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Originally Posted by Oldfishlady View Post
When I use Oak leaf tannins for medication-I will use a 1gal jug with dechlorinated water and add 20 more or less-crushed Oak leaves and allow them to steep for at least 30min so they can start releasing the tannins. Then I will do a gradual acclimation with the premixed tannin water.

The longer they steep-the more tannins released-the darker the water-the better the Betta likes it. The tannins can change the water chemistry and especially with a compromised fish-you want to do a slow or gradual acclimation when you first start using them and with larger water changes.

I have found with a compromised Betta in a QT for treatment using premixed treatment water-That 50% daily to every other day is all that is needed to maintain water quality. By using premixed treatment water you have more control and can provide the therapeutic dosage when making partial water changes.

I don't worry about the leaf bit that fall into the water with the Betta-often they will use these leaf bits for cover-to help make them feel more secure in a bare QT container-as well as the microorganism that can sometimes colonize on them-the Betta will pick at them for added nutrition.

I collect-naturally dried and fallen from the tree-Oak leaves-I don't rinse them, but I may shake off any extra debris.
Since Oak leaf tannin are a natural product-you can't overdose them.

To use as a general tonic-you can add them whole to the tank itself, however, when making a large water change-it is best to have the replacement water tanned before use to avoid pH shock-Long term the tannins can lower the pH.

Both IAL(Indian almond leaf) and Oak leaf tannins are 99% alike chemically-long term use can toughen fins/scales, contain antibacterial/fungal properties, ease stress and can lower pH.

How is your Betta doing-any changes....
He's showing signs of Full-blown Dropsy now--pineconing scales and protruding eyes. Not sure if he will be able to pull through because of his age, but I'm going to continue to treat him. I am trying to stay busy by making the NPT for my boys--otherwise I'll just be crying like crazy. Even my mom got emotional when she came over--she knows how much he means to me. The only positive is that he has been eating the brine shrimp over the past few days--after hours of handfeeding.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:09 PM   #20 
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Dang, sorry she is not getting better, however, sadly, when they age out along with other issue-very little we can do except to make them comfy. The loss of a pet is never easy-but keep your chin up.....
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