Advice for my two boys needed

[Neeklette]

I'll start off with my first betta :
Sorry no picture it is really tiny and he will only swim up to the light of my camera for a second before he realises its not food and goes back to his own bussiness

Housing
What size is your tank? 2 gallon
What temperature is your tank? 86
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? yes
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Tropical betta (a mix of flakes and dried up blood worms/krill), Sera bettagran (pellets)
How often do you feed your betta fish? 1-2 a day depending on what I feed and how much I give

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? everyday at the moment till I get my larger filtered tank
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? I did a 100% yesterday and 50% today, usually 50% everyday 100% every 1-2 weeks
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? Aq. salt and Tetra Aqua Safe water conditioner

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? If so, what are the following parameters?

Ammonia: No ammonia test was available have ordered one online
Nitrite:0-1 mg/l
Nitrate:25-50 mg/l
pH: 8
Hardness: >16°d (I believe its around 38°d in my region)
Alkalinity: 10-15°d

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? he has something attached to one of his pelvic fins, it looks mucusy when I looked with my magnifying glass it looked like a dark brown red worm or something
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? It hasn't really he seems happy blowing a lot of bubbles and eating well
When did you start noticing the symptoms? yesterday
Have you started treating your fish? If so, how? 100% water change added 1tsp per gallon aq. salt raised temp of water.
Does your fish have any history of being ill? just a bit of fin rot/clamped fins when I bought him
How old is your fish (approximately)? Really couldn't say he's my first betta I chose him cos he looked like a baby/runt.




My other betta I just got to day I went to see if they had anything antiparasitic for my above betta and saw a little betta bobbing in the bottom of the tank his fins have been bitten off by other fish in the tank (not sure what breed they were they had long thin flowy tails) and a few dead fish were in the bottom of the tank. Some guy had just put two new bettas to float in the top of the same tank like he was planning to just put them all in together there were a few fish already fighting each other in the tank. I got my bf to ask how much he was and lady just let me take him for free cos I guess no ones looking for a fish like that :(
This is him (haven't named him yet):

Housing
What size is your tank? 1 gallon (temporary) at the moment he is just in a 1ltr cup while I set up await instructions
What temperature is your tank? room temp so 68-77F (will order another heater today they dont sell small tank heaters in the store)
Does your tank have a filter? no
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? no
Is your tank heated? no
What tank mates does your betta fish live with? none

Food
What type of food do you feed your betta fish? Tropical betta (a mix of flakes and dried up blood worms/krill), Sera bettagran (pellets)
How often do you feed your betta fish? 1-2

Maintenance
How often do you perform a water change? everyday at the moment till I get my larger filtered tank
What percentage of the water do you change when you perform a water change? Will do 100% today and 50% everyday after (100% every 1-2 weeks)
What type of additives do you add to the water when you perform a water change? managed to fid some API stress coat! so I will use that and some Aq. salt.

Water Parameters:
Have you tested your water? Not yet

Symptoms and Treatment
How has your betta fish's appearance changed? Bitten torn fins, also some fraying in the fins.
How has your betta fish's behavior changed? I fed him since I got home he ate well, he stays mostly at the bottom of the cup, when he was in the tank at the store he also stayed near the bottom of the tank. He did swim up for food.
When did you start noticing the symptoms? N/A
Have you started treating your fish? Preparing to do what I mentioned above
Does your fish have any history of being ill? N/A
How old is your fish (approximately)? He is very small and the lady in the shop said he was a baby and before they bit his finds off he was a half moon but I don't know whether to believe her.


Any additional tips on how to keep him warmer till the heater gets here would be great.

Products I have:
API stress coat
Sera Toxivec (conditioner that also removed nitrates and ammonia)
Tetra Aqua Safe (standard conditioner)
Sera Aquatan (standard conditioner)
Sera Omnipur ((Versatile water conditioner that is quickly and safely effective against almost all pathogens occurring in freshwater. These include bacterial infections (e.g. Columnaris, Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, fin and gill rot), infections by fungi (e.g. Saprolegnia), single celled skin parasites (e.g. Ichthyobodo, Chilodonella, Trichodina) as well as skin and gill flukes. The treatment can also be used for disinfecting external injuries and furthermore prevents secondary infections. - ingredients in 100ml are amino acridine hydrochloride 105mg,acriflavine chloride 600mg, ethacridine lactate 3,375mg, malachite green oxalate 79mg <-- I was planning to use this on the first betta mentioned if the parasite or whatever it is doesn't drop off by itself soon))

[callistra]

You shouldn't be seeing any nitrates unless you have a cycled tank.. unless your source water has it in there.. that's a huge amount of nitrates.. confirm you really have that many nitrates in your source water? Too high to keep fish. 20ppm is all you should get max. Some fish are more hardy and can handle up to 40ppm but that's it and is really not ideal.

I have no idea what a brown worm would be.. I mean flatworms are internal parasites.. anchor worms aren't really brown.. Is it an anchor worm?http://www.google.com/search?q=ancho...EITa8wSBl4DgAg

Depending on what it is salt may not help it. Something like API General Cure may be necessary (Metronidazole & Praziquantel) for that one, but you can start with salt and see.

Otherwise AQ and the frequent water changes you're doing will help the rot. API Stress Coat at 1 ml per 1 gallon can also help with fin regrowth.

The temp swings in the second tank is a huge problem and of that large amount can be lethal. Make sure he's away from any exterior doors, windows and vents.

I'd be scared of that Sera Omnipur stuff.. anything that says it treats all THAT is either a bunch of bs or has a TON of different toxic meds.

[Neeklette]

Yeah I've put him in the middle of the computer room (next to two warm pcs and the heating is set to go on if its below 25).

I tested my water twice once before my 50% change today and once after and the results were the same and I have just done a 100% change the day before, maybe my cycle has failed :( I'll do a test on normal tap water.

If my tap water has nitrates in is it better off using the conditioner that says it removes nitrates/nitrites/ammonia and if so can I use it in combination with stress coat for my second betta?

API products seem non existent here I was super shocked to find the stress coat and the only other API products they had was to make your water crystal clear. Anyway I will look for some products that contain the active ingredients you mentioned. In the mean time I will carry on with the salt because he is not showing any signs of stress or darting and hope that whatever it is falls off.

I have searched numerous sites too trying to find something that looked like it with no avail. I first noticed it when the light was off and it was a mucousy/wooly string hanging from him and I thought it might be fungus but on closer inspection with the light and magnifier it looked like there was something inside the mucous. I very difficult to be certain because he has red colours in is pelvic fins and they are still growing back and also he's very active and never really stay still unless he's resting and sleeping and as soon as I go in he's up straight away thinking I'm bringing food!

[Neeklette]

I tested my tap water and there was hardly any difference between my tank and tap water so I guess my tap water contains quite high nitrate :( I also tested bottled water to make sure the tests weren't faulty.

[Neeklette]

Originally Posted by Neeklette

I tested my tap water and there was hardly any difference between my tank and tap water so I guess my tap water contains quite high nitrate :( I also tested bottled water to make sure the tests weren't faulty.

What should I do now?

[callistra]

25-50ppm is a huge range. Is there any way to get a test that narrows it down further?

IMHO, if you've got <20ppm nitrates in your tap water you should use a different source for keeping fish. I know you don't have an ammonia kit but it's also likely you have that in your tap as well if your nitrates are that high.

[Neeklette]

I will see if my mother in law has a liquid test since she has a big aquarium and has had it for years now. My first bettas parasite has gone so I am very pleased.
I am away from home for a few weeks and my husband will be taking care of my boys, but today I found a wonderful aquarium shop in town they had loads of different fish and they looked so healthy and they had some high tech monitoring system for the tanks. All fish were kept with their own kind not just everything thrown in together like at the chain pet store and other aquariums in the area so if I test my water more accurately I will see what the owner there suggests otherwise it will have to be bottled water which I've heard is not good either.

[callistra]

I use very carefully treated and tested very hq ro (meaning it's literally stripped of everything consistently.. not all RO systems are so good) because my city water literally cannot house fish long term. The Ph is between 9-11 and fluctuates. It can be done.. I mean my system is what someone would have to put in place for a discus tank or the like, but it's a huge pain in the ass and I'd never suggest it unless there's a real issue with the RO.

I would ask the fish store about the water they use and how it tests and compares to what you're getting out of your tap. That'd be a good place to start.

Also if your rescues are improving and acting well.. then go with it.. just keep a watchful eye and if you start having problems know the water could be an issue

[Neeklette]

Thank you so much for all your help and advice callistra