Is this even normal?? scales falling off

[asukabetta]

I got a new betta called Dastán a mere week ago, been caring for him till I noticed the ICH, it was hard to see at first because his coloration has white in it.

So I proceeded to treat the ich, as I have done it plenty of times before. Yesterday was his first dosage of JBL punktol ultra, and while he was swimming I noticed something fall off him. IT WAS A SCALE.

I looked at the barebottom hospital tank and there is like 2 scales there.

I'm not sure what could cause this... I used this treatment before and never had I such a reaction, unless it is something else. There are no signs apart from the ich, and a missing scale spot.

TANK:

Temp: 82
PH: 7
tank: 2 gallons cilinder, it has NOTHING except the heater.
ich: started treatment with medication and higher temps 1 day
No other visible signs.
Food: pellets spectrum and bloodworms
water changes: every day 100% since ich treatment initiated.

The pic of the fish is the one in the avatar, sadly I cannot take a picture at the moment. I will post when I can.

[callistra]

No, this is not normal

What are the ingredients in this medication?

I would treat ick by increasing heat to 86-88F, no more than one degree per hour and 5 degrees per day. Do daily 100% changes with matching temp (use thermometer) and preconditioned water and keep the heat this high until a week after the very last sign of ick. You can also add aquarium salt, predissolved at 1 tsp per gallon for up to 10 days. Heat may need to continue longer.

As a side note, ick is an opportunistic infection that happens because of fish stress... usually water quality issues, so more info would be helpful on how you maintain the main tank: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=49233

[asukabetta]

Originally Posted by callistra

No, this is not normal

What are the ingredients in this medication?

I would treat ick by increasing heat to 86-88F, no more than one degree per hour and 5 degrees per day. Do daily 100% changes with matching temp (use thermometer) and preconditioned water and keep the heat this high until a week after the very last sign of ick. You can also add aquarium salt, predissolved at 1 tsp per gallon for up to 10 days. Heat may need to continue longer.

As a side note, ick is an opportunistic infection that happens because of fish stress... usually water quality issues, so more info would be helpful on how you maintain the main tank: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=49233

methylene blue, it was a medication I bought with the recommendation of sakura8 as we talked about it's ingredients.

Ingredients:

violet crystal
methelyne blue
oxilato de verde malaquita (Dunno how to translate that to english) malaquite green?

And I have treated my bettas with it before and never got a negative reaction. And the dosage is correct, I measure it via sringe without needles.

I started the treatment a day ago - 2 days, and I have been raising the temperature gradually, usually his tank is at a 78, so going to 82 was what I achieved slowly.

he is now at 84F. And no signs of any scale falling off yet since the water change. I wouldn't blame him for being stressed, my heater was turned off by my sister who accidentally turned it off when she was trying to plug in her laptop into my ports. (there is a generic switch on it.)

So it was cold for a whole day at 68 till I got home from classes and work at 1 am.

The next day there were signs of ich.

Also there are rumors that the tap water providers had been adding more chemicals in the water since it rained a lot. Unsure if this is true, as my other bettas have no signs of negative reactions as of yet.

Yes I know I have been doing 100% changes and redosing, always letting the water sit in with another heater to make it at the same tank temperature, with a thermometre.

I don't use Aq salt till after the treatment is done, or when I'm nearing the end of the treatment to help the medication kill the ich. Then extend the aquarium salt treatment to a maximum of 10 days and then proceed to leave him with a minimal extract of IAL, to help with recovery.

I'm more worried about the scale part, not sure about his history had him for a few days, his appetite is still good, his behaviour less skittish as the ich is being treated. My suspicion could be he loosened the scale scratching himself against the heater but I still find it odd...

[callistra]

I don't know what violet crystal is.. but I recognize the other two ingredients. They are standard external parasite treatment. As long as you are dosing according to the bottle they should be okay for a week or two.

He very well could have rubbed his scales off scratching from Ick. As long as you're not seeing any more and he is acting okay now I would not worry.

[LittleBlueFishlets]

Crystal violet is also known as Gentian violet. It has some antibacterial and antifungal properties.

OK, found a reference:
"Gentian violet is an antiseptic dye used to treat fungal infections of the skin (e.g., ringworm, athlete's foot). It also has weak antibacterial effects and may be used on minor cuts and scrapes to prevent infection."
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-4397...ian+Violet+Top

[asukabetta]

The ich is getting worse o.o it's covered almost his whole body and he is at 86 F, with 100% changes daily and medicine dosage, today I added AQ salt because this is getting ridiculous, it's so ichy for him I saw him bite his fin because of it.

[callistra]

His immune system may be shot.. If you can find Fresh Water Vitachem, get some and add it to the tank at a rate of 2 drops per gallon. You can also soak his pellets in it for up to 10min.

[asukabetta]

He won't eat any foods now, added vitachem to his foods, also tried garlic juice, he ignores them. Even tried mysis shrimp and fresh bloodworms, but also were ignored.

The tail has fungus growth despite the aq salt and the 100% water changes (though it could be an excess of slime), and the ich has reached his eyes now.

He remains listless on the top, gulping air occasionally but not moving or anything... and is starting to tilt slightly to the side and the fins are clamped.

I'm out of ideas as this has never happened to me during an ich treatment...

[Sena Hansler]

Wow. I have no idea, what exactly is happening. Can you post a picture? How has his poo been looking recently?

since you had him for about a week, he probably came to you sick...

[callistra]

Vitachem can be added directly to the water then at 2 drops per gallon.

So wait are you using salt or JBL punktol ultra?

Can you get CopperSafe or Quick Cure where you are?

Is there any aeration/water movement in what he's in?