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Old 02-03-2013, 01:07 AM   #21 
indjo
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Originally Posted by Luimeril View Post
Meeko's bred whites, i think. and has bred many other colors of bettas for a long while now. :I i think he'd know that breeding a white female to a multi male would ruin what OP is trying to go for... his wording wasn't harsh at all, he was stating facts, facts he knows due to experience in breeding bettas of various color patterns. he gave good advice in this matter. he just didn't sugar coat things, and he never has sugar coated things. i'd personally rather get advice from someone who's done this before, rather than someone who's gonna sugar coat things.
If I'm not mistaken, the OP's concern is producing salamanders, not white. IME, cambodian or anything from cambodian (incl white), will retain the color - if another salamander isn't available. Or if a darker shade is desired, irid colors should work (namely blue). Both cambodian and irid will produce lots of non salamanders too.

At times it is necessary to "ruin" certain solid colors to achieve a goal. What is important to me is helping the OP reach his/her goal . . . . and everything can be explained in a nice way.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:28 AM   #22 
Hadoken Kitty
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I suppose I should've stated things differently. The purpose wasn't to get a pure white body. I would've purchased a white fish had I wanted that. It was to attempt to get different variations of this boy's color pattern: I.E.: a lighter version of it all together/ a lighter body/darker finnage/ lighter finnage/darker body. Naturally this happens through-out generations, and I'd never expect any of these things to happen on the first go. I just want to be able to play around with these colors. I'm interested with the scientific side of it. (Has anyone in IBC made any scientific-like records of their breedings reguarding this "x-factor"? I'd really like to be able to read about it if able to) I would just appreciate some pointing in the right direction.

I saw a rather pretty lavender (more red than blue in this case) HMPKEE. She was VERY tight finned, and she has a BF pattern.

1.)My worries still stand with the breeding of a rose-tail. I really don't want an x-factor fish.
2.)Would PK's tail shorten my guy's tail? He already has a problem with his caudal being shorter than his dorsal and anal fins.
3.)Also, I'm worried about crossing another genetic mutation with an initial genetic mutation. It wounds like a recipe for disaster.

I'm having trouble with learning to count rays. I know that may sounds silly, but I'm really trying. I want to make sure I get that down before I make any decisions.

Also, I only expect this to be a hobby. I am not wanting this to be a life long dream job.....that is why I am going to college. I would like to enjoy this, which is why politeness is appreciated.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:48 AM   #23 
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I wouldn't breed a rosetail the risks are too high and like said if he turns out to produce xfacot fry then you have to cull everything. Also once it gets into the lines it's hard to fix so if someone breed your babies later on and sold them as showable breeding fish....o.o well it would destroy a lot of breeding projects I'll tell you. Even giving your fish to petshops wont stop it as many people breed petshop fish, mainly being inexperienced breeders. If any of those breeders though hope to produce show quality fish along the line they may breeding back into your lien and get nightmares as results and have to start over. I hate to think about not just your fry but fry those fry will produce and issues that will arise in the overall bloodline. I feel like this is one of those issues, if you know a dog has a serious health issue why breed him so his puppies can get it and those puppies, then it washes into good lines and those puppies will have the risk and there goes that bloodline and now it's more and more prevalent in the breed and GAH everyone's pet is dying of something horrid related to that breed and hearts are broken and animals suffer. If you are breeding for pets then above all breed for health.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:51 AM   #24 
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.....Ok. Back to the drawing board then. Thank you for wording it so kindly LadyVictorian. I can't help but laugh, though....I read that entire statement as if you were saying it in one long, drawn-out, breath.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:00 AM   #25 
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xD I tend to talk like that in real life until I run out and sort of do the Ace Ventura thing.

I very much picked up my breeding morals from the mouse community. There were two types of breeders, show breeders who breed for perfect conformation and the next champion and then pet breeders who still bred for good conformation 'not show but good' but above all they bred for health and personality (ie friendlyness). We always said if you couldn't breed healthy kind mice then don't breed. When people buy them for shows or breeding show fish they want the best lookers who can improve their stock. When you breed for pets you have to remember these will be animals people will love. Breeding strong healthy fish means those owners will face less issues and hopefully will have longer happier lives with the animal they come to love. I know the pain of bad breeding myself with my Doberman Pincher. She was only 7 when we had to put her down due to cancer which can be prevalent in the breed though most breeders try to weed it out. She was perhaps the best dog I have ever know, perfect in every way and saying goodbye to her so soon over something so horrid was hard on the family. I know fish and dogs are not the same but the love owners feel for them is.

I wish you luck on finding a nice pair to work with though. If you breed some HM I would love to know when the spawn comes, I may grab a boy up myself.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:03 AM   #26 
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I was trying to find a viable way of getting around it. Hoping, well, praying that it wasn't a genetic mutation that was that bad on a fish. How unfortunate. I can't wait to love Double-O-Bubbles, though! He just won't be my breeding daddy. I'll find me a nice, big HM male. Somewhere.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:11 AM   #27 
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If you live close to MN I would say go to a place called The Betta Shop, that place carried great fish. Even if you don't live there you can still ship. Wait till Aprilish to ship and the shipping for overnight will be cheaper. It's another option other than AB and the fish tend to be cheaper too and VERY nice with LOTS of great colors. I got my boy from there and am going to eventually work on show worthy HMPK lines from him :D

Also the guy who runs it is very helpful and will answer any questions on the fish you have, you can even order what color you want and he will find it for you.

http://www.mnbettashop.com/

You could even get a pair right from him and just tell him what you are looking for and ship them together to save on price.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:19 AM   #28 
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That show number one is teasing. Lol. Where is show number 7 for HM? I'm not really close to MN. I have a friend who lives there, but I doubt she could care for my fish for me. :(

Mildly curious: dad's color pattern typically come out fuller than mom's in the fry? or vice versa? in example:

dad is HM black lace and mom is HM black orchid?

lets use pictures since I'm not very good. just for learning purposes:

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...shm&1359946811

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...shm&1359940806

I greatly appreciate everything that everyone on this forum has done for me...I wish that there was some way I could repay you guys...
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:20 AM   #29 
indjo
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If you can get another male, I'd rather not breed a bought rose - unless I know for certain of its genetics.

Sorry I can't post you a sketch on rays. It's in my comp, which blew a fuse, so to speak. But just to explain, rays start from one and branches. When we say 4 ray, one ray eventually branches to 4 at the end. 8 rays means one ray branches into 8 . . . . and so on.

I don't believe males color is more dominant. IMO it all depends on who's genes are more fixed in the individual. My results show that color can go either way.
But I do believe that females are more dominant for form. Though not 100% true, yet often reliable.

You want to repay us? . . . Easy; enjoy yourself, enjoy your hobby and breed responsibly :)
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:44 AM   #30 
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I don't feel as if it will be ruining color. Thank you though.
If you want to breed then go ahead and do it. Listen to Indjo. He gives great advice.

Last edited by dramaqueen; 02-03-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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