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Old 02-15-2013, 01:52 PM   #61 
LadyVictorian
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Have you not seen lionfish swim though? I am not speaking of the fact they have poison spines, they are predatory fish, fast ,and accurate and yet their pectoral fins are massive and they have no trouble swimming. Just watch one hunt will you, they move with lightning speed and then a sudden stillness. They are beautiful animals and it takes more than defense from predators to survive. As a carnivorous animal it takes hunting skill and strength as well.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:55 PM   #62 
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Swimming is swimming no matter what type of animal or human you are. You just swim in a different manner. Swimming is pushing yourself through the water. Watch the video. When the pectoral fin goes forward, the ends of the fins fold backward, causing a drag. When the pectoral fins go backward toward the body, the ends of the fins want to go forward, because of the drag. The physics is there. plain as day right in front of us. Can these fish swim, yes. Can they swim comparatively as well as others, maybe. Do they need to work harder to be able to do these things, yes!

Mattsbettas, "And louisvillelady, your intentions don't really matter, this thread was has become /was created for the sole purpose of attacking ee and the people who like and breed them." Do you make it a habit to go around telling people why they did something? You do not know me. What makes you think you know why this thread was created? I told you why it was created. To bring it to peoples attention that we should be more conscientious about what we breed into these fish. Some people will be extremely cautious. Some people will not care one hill of beans what it does to the fish as long as the fish are what they want. Others may not have thought about it, and this thread will get them to stop and think about it. THAT is why this thread was created. And no one is attacking ee or the breeders of ee. I said the excessive ee should not be breed. If you feel differently, fine, but I have the right to say that I don't think they should be breed and to explain why. Everyone else has the right to make up their minds as well.

No! Swimming is not all the same! Would you expect a fish to get up and walk? It's the same thing. You can not compare a fish swimming to a human. I am bronze cross certified and swim hours a week and I have fish that I watch every day, and I can tell you that we swim in a way that is compleatly different then fish. And no I do not know you or know your intentions, but there is no denying that this has blown up into you and some others attacking ee and their advocates. And drag is everywhere. When you walk, when you swim. Drag happens everywhere. So, if you don't mind, please stop attacking people over your unproven opinions.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:59 PM   #63 
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Originally Posted by LadyVictorian View Post
Have you not seen lionfish swim though? I am not speaking of the fact they have poison spines, they are predatory fish, fast ,and accurate and yet their pectoral fins are massive and they have no trouble swimming. Just watch one hunt will you, they move with lightning speed and then a sudden stillness. They are beautiful animals and it takes more than defense from predators to survive. As a carnivorous animal it takes hunting skill and strength as well.
Yes but LIONFISH became this way over millions (no trillions) of years of what we call EVOLUTION! EVOLUTION! NOT purposely bred mutants like the way EE bettas are! Let me say that again....LIONFISH EVOLVED this way and that is why they can have volkswagon-sized pectoral fins if they want to AND STILL SURVIVE in the wild. EE bettas are mutations that are purposely propagated for the our entertainment and thus their gallon-sized pectoral fins would not stand a chance in nature. Do you get it yet? Let me summarize:

EE bettas = mutants w/ big fins
Lionfish = naturally w/ big fins

Lastly, big fins do NOT equal survival in all fish. ONLY IF IT'S NATURAL do big fins have an advantage! Have you ever taken a course in biology? (and I mean that in the nicest way...I swear)
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:15 PM   #64 
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Can we please discuss this without attacking each other? Thank you.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:18 PM   #65 
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I am not saying throw your EE's into the wild and they would survive (and evolution my friend is mutation as well, mutations that improve a species and are passed along...so...yeah. Evolution=mutations...just saying.)

What I AM saying is you so calmly reread is THIS: Lionfish though they have massive fins have no troubles in their life, yes they evolved but this evolution started as a mutation and through this those first lionfish with the larger fins somehow did much better than those with smaller fins and breed, populated, and this became the norm weeding out all those who otherwise started with smaller fins. EE is likewise a mutation and through us human breeders are breeding this mutation into lines giving more of our PK EE fins because of the beauty and grace. Domestication in it's own right is a form of evolution driven by the hand of man in fact. Perhaps not as cruel as natures survival of the fittest but it's the same concept, using mutations to get a certain outcome. In the end Lionfish are not hampered by their large pectorals as serpents are not hampered by their lack of limbs and nor are EE's hampered from their larger pectorals. If they truly were then they would all be in poor health, have shorter lifespans, and show evidence of their misery. Of all the EE video's I have seen they are all active, healthy fish who show 0 sign of strain or stress from their enlarged fins. And Option I am not calling you out but I found it odd you didn't realize Evolution is in essence mutations which improve....it was odd to me. It's not like one morning some bird wakes up a different color than the others, it is a 'flaw' or mutation withing the genes passed on slowly from generation to generations. I believe in biology in fact there was a lesson on moths that showed this. For many generations the trees in a local area were pale in color and thus the paler colored moths survived while their offspring who had a mutation to make the pigments darker were eaten by birds. Introduce us humans and out industrial revolution the trees were covered in grime making them darker and thus the moths who had the mutation to make them darker were surviving while the original paler moths were eaten up by birds. Now the mutation though originally was detrimental to the individual was saving them. So yes I have taken biology and know mutations cause evolution to be plausible. Things don't just become without some gene somewhere changing something from what it once was and being enforced by breeding stronger into lines until it's the new norm.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:27 PM   #66 
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Evoulution is mutation... And it's compleatly natural.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:35 PM   #67 
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I believe in biology in fact there was a lesson on moths that showed this. For many generations the trees in a local area were pale in color and thus the paler colored moths survived while their offspring who had a mutation to make the pigments darker were eaten by birds. Introduce us humans and out industrial revolution the trees were covered in grime making them darker and thus the moths who had the mutation to make them darker were surviving while the original paler moths were eaten up by birds. Now the mutation though originally was detrimental to the individual was saving them.
I was still keeping tabs here, and saw this, I need to add to it:
Once people realized that they were causing the Peppered Moth to mutate into a darker color morph, they started to clean up the mess from factories. Within a few generations of things being close to normal again, the moths were back to the original pale color, and once again, the darker moths were picked off by birds.
(Just finished a biology course in December, thanks)
http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/tis...ticle/127.html
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:42 PM   #68 
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It's ironic- as I'm watching our little drama unfold, Glow, a female HM, is chasing poor Mist, female EEPK, all over the 10 gal. Glow hasn't caught Mist yet. Glow is rapidly earning a "timeout" for her aggression. Of course, if I go over to the tank, all 9 fish line up, and look at me with little halos over their heads!
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:59 PM   #69 
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They're looking for food. Lol
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:00 PM   #70 
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It's ironic- as I'm watching our little drama unfold, Glow, a female HM, is chasing poor Mist, female EEPK, all over the 10 gal. Glow hasn't caught Mist yet. Glow is rapidly earning a "timeout" for her aggression. Of course, if I go over to the tank, all 9 fish line up, and look at me with little halos over their heads!
xD Seems Mist agrees with me and my bigger mertail theory then. The bigger it is the more control required but overall lets hit those top speeds girl and see them try to catch us.

The only trouble I have ever encountered while wearing a larger tail is turning from my belly to my back is a pain because I have so much tail to move. It catches on the water and requires more strength and control to keep from flopping back over. The good news is I have yet to see a betta swim on their back so I think they are going to be okay.
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