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Old 02-15-2013, 09:50 AM   #16601 
ThePearlFish
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No I haven't. My eyes are pretty dry, I think that is part of the reason. I think I just simply need more sleep as well.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:51 PM   #16602 
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Shirley: Most C-sections are not necessary. Like, really really not needed. Convenience is the most prevalent reason for them...doctors like them because then they can schedule births and not have to put in lots of time and/or lose sleep due to a labor and delivery.

It doesn't matter than the baby hasn't turned, that can happen as labor is happening. In fact, it often doesn't happen until labor.

I have also known teeny tiny people who push out 10 pound babies with no problem...small is not an excuse.

I am on a soapbox about C-sections. I hate them. A lot. Somtimes they are necessary....most of the time they are not, and such surgeries, being unnecessary, are just ways for the docs to get more money and the mom to get an infection. Ick.

Sorry, I birthed two the good old fashioned way (one with epidural, one without any pain meds), and while "inconvenient," I'd recommend it any day. Although you can't really say a lot if a mom's mind is made up, maybe you could say a little something about how she can do it herself (without the surgery).
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:10 PM   #16603 
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Shirley: Most C-sections are not necessary. Like, really really not needed. Convenience is the most prevalent reason for them...doctors like them because then they can schedule births and not have to put in lots of time and/or lose sleep due to a labor and delivery.

It doesn't matter than the baby hasn't turned, that can happen as labor is happening. In fact, it often doesn't happen until labor.

I have also known teeny tiny people who push out 10 pound babies with no problem...small is not an excuse.

I am on a soapbox about C-sections. I hate them. A lot. Somtimes they are necessary....most of the time they are not, and such surgeries, being unnecessary, are just ways for the docs to get more money and the mom to get an infection. Ick.

Sorry, I birthed two the good old fashioned way (one with epidural, one without any pain meds), and while "inconvenient," I'd recommend it any day. Although you can't really say a lot if a mom's mind is made up, maybe you could say a little something about how she can do it herself (without the surgery).
Standing right next to you on that soapbox. Many doctors also do C-sections to prevent malpractice, and moms schedule them so they don't have to go through the hassle of giving birth naturally. I'm also on the fence about epidurals and pitocin and other birth accelerants, so to speak, because many times they are given unnecessarily and lead to C-sections that most likely wouldn't have been needed had they let nature take its course.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:33 PM   #16604 
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Sorry to divert from the C-section debate, just popping my rant in here.

It annoys me when I attempt to be helpful to someone, and get jumped on my them and a mutual friend discounting everything I say. An acquaintance of mine bought a betta fish. I "liked" the photo she put up on Facebook, naturally, because I love bettas.

She asked me why he wasn't active, and I asked her if her tank was heated, all the usual questions people ask on here usually when someone has a similar question. Not unreasonable so far, right? So we have a little discussion about where to get heaters on a budget, because she can't afford a fancy-schmancy one at the moment. Of course we'd all rather people prepared properly prior to purchasing their fish, but what's done is done, and better she gets a heater in a couple of weeks than never.

All this was fine, until a know-it-all entomologist friend decides to chime in, with distinctly condescending remarks, basically telling me I'm full of it and that they don't need heaters, because of their natural habitat, blah blah blah... The usual stuff that'd get stomped on right from the get-go if it were on here, and quickly corrected, no questions asked. Now, I'd never question this guy's expertise on the topic of insects, but he seems to think he knows everything about everything, not just about his particular specialty.

I'm not quite sure where to head with this conversation now that I have pointed out that their "natural habitat" is a far cry from an unheated 15 litre tank in Melbourne, and that pet store Betta Splendens isn't exactly a fish suited for the wild, and that heaters are in fact needed, even if only to prevent wild fluctuations in temperature. I can see this thread on Facebook turning into a very heated debate, and to be honest, I'm not sure I will be able to stay civil, given that I spend almost all of my free time reading about bettas, learning more and more each time I sit down at the computer, which I have been doing every single day for the past four and a half months... And these guys obviously don't have the same level of knowledge, but treat me as though I don't know anything about these fish.

Like I said, I'd never challenge facts given by this entomologist friend about insects, nor would I question the acquaintance's knowledge of many other animals (she is studying to become a vet) but they obviously have bought into what people generally buy into about bettas, and I'm not sure they'll listen to a lowly body piercer-wannabe whose passion happens to be betta keeping.

AND MY COFFEE HASN'T EVEN KICKED IN YET. ARGH.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:11 PM   #16605 
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Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
Sorry to divert from the C-section debate, just popping my rant in here.

It annoys me when I attempt to be helpful to someone, and get jumped on my them and a mutual friend discounting everything I say. An acquaintance of mine bought a betta fish. I "liked" the photo she put up on Facebook, naturally, because I love bettas.

She asked me why he wasn't active, and I asked her if her tank was heated, all the usual questions people ask on here usually when someone has a similar question. Not unreasonable so far, right? So we have a little discussion about where to get heaters on a budget, because she can't afford a fancy-schmancy one at the moment. Of course we'd all rather people prepared properly prior to purchasing their fish, but what's done is done, and better she gets a heater in a couple of weeks than never.

All this was fine, until a know-it-all entomologist friend decides to chime in, with distinctly condescending remarks, basically telling me I'm full of it and that they don't need heaters, because of their natural habitat, blah blah blah... The usual stuff that'd get stomped on right from the get-go if it were on here, and quickly corrected, no questions asked. Now, I'd never question this guy's expertise on the topic of insects, but he seems to think he knows everything about everything, not just about his particular specialty.

I'm not quite sure where to head with this conversation now that I have pointed out that their "natural habitat" is a far cry from an unheated 15 litre tank in Melbourne, and that pet store Betta Splendens isn't exactly a fish suited for the wild, and that heaters are in fact needed, even if only to prevent wild fluctuations in temperature. I can see this thread on Facebook turning into a very heated debate, and to be honest, I'm not sure I will be able to stay civil, given that I spend almost all of my free time reading about bettas, learning more and more each time I sit down at the computer, which I have been doing every single day for the past four and a half months... And these guys obviously don't have the same level of knowledge, but treat me as though I don't know anything about these fish.

Like I said, I'd never challenge facts given by this entomologist friend about insects, nor would I question the acquaintance's knowledge of many other animals (she is studying to become a vet) but they obviously have bought into what people generally buy into about bettas, and I'm not sure they'll listen to a lowly body piercer-wannabe whose passion happens to be betta keeping.

AND MY COFFEE HASN'T EVEN KICKED IN YET. ARGH.
I have had similar experiences with people thinking that their way is right even though I have had fish who actually live for years instead of the few weeks/months of said persons. It really comes down to how much your friend really wants to keep their betta, if she only wanted it because it's "pretty and easy to care for" then she will have a large wake up call when it's getting sick and dying before her eyes, but if she genuinely cares for it she will probably private message you on what she should get rather than getting shoveled information down her throat by that other guy.

If you don't want to get into the fight just send her a message saying "Hey, I know some stuff that can help you out with your fish" and start up a conversation from there so that you don't have to deal with ignorant people chiming in on what they "think" is right for the fish.

Sometimes I wish people would let each other talk it out instead of going back and forth saying that only one of them is right. (nothing about you, just in general)
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:32 PM   #16606 
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I have had similar experiences with people thinking that their way is right even though I have had fish who actually live for years instead of the few weeks/months of said persons. It really comes down to how much your friend really wants to keep their betta, if she only wanted it because it's "pretty and easy to care for" then she will have a large wake up call when it's getting sick and dying before her eyes, but if she genuinely cares for it she will probably private message you on what she should get rather than getting shoveled information down her throat by that other guy.

If you don't want to get into the fight just send her a message saying "Hey, I know some stuff that can help you out with your fish" and start up a conversation from there so that you don't have to deal with ignorant people chiming in on what they "think" is right for the fish.

Sometimes I wish people would let each other talk it out instead of going back and forth saying that only one of them is right. (nothing about you, just in general)
I doubt she'll message me, we're really not close, and she's more likely to trust the other guy over me. Which is unfortunate, we were having a perfectly civil conversation going back and forth (after the heater chat) about cute decor that's available before it got a bit hairy with the other guy. Until he came barging into the conversation with what was in short, "Bahaha, what you say is only fear-mongering, they need nothing special! How could you be so stupid to buy into the hype that they actually need things?" all was well. I do think I managed to keep civil with just saying what my opinion was, and linking to here if the girl wanted further information and the chance to ask more experienced fishkeepers questions. I don't think I'll be participating in the conversation further if the guy shuts that down as well, it's just not worth trying to talk sense into someone who's that self-important that research holds no importance to him. Hopefully the girl will follow the link here and learn more about caring for her fish.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:46 PM   #16607 
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Yeah, sounds like you handled that in the best way possible. No one can force you to learn anything if you don't want to. Hopefully she take the initiative to learn about her fish before it turns into another betta in a vase story.

Anti-Rant I just finished a 150 line program that had me on the ropes for a few hours. It's always so gratifying to have a program work with no errors!
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:16 PM   #16608 
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Even my wild bettas need heaters and they come from where the water is a lot cooler because of thick canopy overhead. Only reason you wouldn't need a heater for a betta is if you lived in one of their countries of origin where you know it is hot and humid basically all year round.

Every single betta I have seen here in Australia that has been kept year round in an unheated tank has looked clamped and unhappy. Only places you could get away with it for a few months is up in QLD or NT where it is hot.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:27 PM   #16609 
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Even my wild bettas need heaters and they come from where the water is a lot cooler because of thick canopy overhead. Only reason you wouldn't need a heater for a betta is if you lived in one of their countries of origin where you know it is hot and humid basically all year round.

Every single betta I have seen here in Australia that has been kept year round in an unheated tank has looked clamped and unhappy. Only places you could get away with it for a few months is up in QLD or NT where it is hot.
I wouldn't dream of keeping my bettas without heaters... This girl was saying she was planning to buy a heater, which at least is good. Just hoping that this dude's opinion doesn't make her reconsider...
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:39 PM   #16610 
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Have you told him that they live in Thailand...as in, the Thailand on the equator, where it is consistently hot and the water temperature is too? I'd love to know where he gets his "knowledge" from. He should stick to bugs.

Someone once told me (on Yahoo, predictably) that bettas live in elephants' footprints in Africa and therefore don't need anything other than a quart bowl.

Anti-rant: Jervis Bay is beautiful! Just got back from a three night holiday there, and despite spending the first night puking my guts up, the rest of the time was lovely. Because the bay is a marine park, we say dolphins, rays of many kinds, heaps of fish, all kinds of anenomes, and an octopus, just chilling within a 100m of the beach. Most amazing place for snorkelling, with the Guiness World Record for the whitest sand and stupidly beautiful clear water.
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