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Old 02-15-2013, 06:39 PM   #81 
Sena Hansler
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El moves about pretty well. He is an HMPKEE, which is what I like about him. Not super long EE trait, just enough to give him a butterfly kind of look. He hasn't shown a single problem for swimming or even buoyancy.

And yes, I do intend to breed him. No super EE, and probably to a plakat female to keep the short finnage. I've watched my fish swim... They use their dorsal, their anal, their caudal, their pectorals - every fin they have is used much like a plane adjusting for wind, height, turning, etc.

Do I intend to breed only for the look? That'd be stupid. And immature. Yes the look will be there to breed with but without a healthy and strong fish... You have nothing. Understandably there will be tail types all, some, or most of you hate and will go off ranting about. Just stop. Don't like it, don't breed them, don't support breeding them. Did you know most people respond to gentle encouragement and not a kick in the ass?

We as breeders have choices. Breed for looks? Breed for health? Or even bring back health with the looks. Doubletail, rosetails, EE... All technically deformities. But we have a choice. Send them back to the depths or strengthen their genetics - since we decided to take on the role of Mother Nature and god, we now must pay for our decisions and tend to them reasonably.

That's my input.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:50 PM   #82 
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All of those lionfish have rigid pectorals, plus they are tail swimmers not pectoral flappers.

In the vids yeah, the hm has trouble going faster when he uses his body to swim in short fast bursts because of his finnage, when they do short fast bursts they clamp their pectorals up and dont use them.
Heres another being hindered during short fast bursts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxebprgqYZ8

Short fast bursts=tail and body movement
Casual maneuvering and chilling out=pectoral fins

So you say that excessive finnage on the unpaired fins reduces a Bettas ability to swim but excessive finnage on the paired fins make the fish swim better?
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:54 PM   #83 
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We aren't ranting or insulting people and the fish they choose to keep. We are discussing the pros and cons of enlarged pectorals.
Ideally this would be in a scientific manner and keeping emotion out of it, since emotion has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:04 PM   #84 
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The HM still looks more strained to swim than the EE honestly. Even that HM looked strained to swim compared to any EE I have seen. Still say EE's swim better than fish with longer larger tails like DeT and HM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:05 PM   #85 
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One "trick" my male EE Butch uses those pecs for is taking a vertical nap. I have a bushy plant. Sometimes Butch spreads his big pecs over the top of the plant, burys his nose in it, and upends himself, resting on the platform he's created. Of course, when I first saw him do this, I flipped! I thought he was dead! I rushed over, and he pulled his nose out, looked at me as if to say, "What? I can't take a nap?!"
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:07 PM   #86 
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xD that is cute, GAH can't wait to get my EE girl. ^-^ I want a HMPKEE female for the sorority tank.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:10 PM   #87 
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I didn't mean you were ranting - though skimming through there has been a bit of ranting... Or if you rather, "hot debate". Xaltd that adorable. El is a scaredy cat... Though has gotten brave enough to flare at me when it's feeding time.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:16 PM   #88 
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My female EE's pectoral fins are in tatters due to the nipping as I established the tank. Of course, the others have nip marks on their fins, too. Even w/ shredded pecs, they zoom about. I'm hoping they'll grow back as they settle in. Just games of "chase" now, after about 5 weeks. Butch, who has always been solo, has perfect fins. I wonder if the fins are an advantage to aggressors (makes the fish look bigger) or a hindrance, due to possibility of injury. Oh, no! I've started another debate!!
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:25 PM   #89 
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That's interesting. I know single betta males in a community tank... Their long flowy fins are a target for most fish. Not sure about an EE female in a sorority though. I have PKs doomed to isolation and the four females in the sorority don't do much more than bop with their mouth.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:27 PM   #90 
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Yeah absolutely, he is straining in his short burst movements due to his large fins. Drag increases with speed, size and shape
Compare
EE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmwxp3vNAf4

Normal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RozPtK3aFf8
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