Betta Fish Care  
Go Back   Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care > Breeding Betta Fish
Check out the eBook Betta Fish Care Made Easy
betta fish
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-21-2013, 12:25 AM   #1 
Silverrealm
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Canada
Copper, Platinum, Dragon, Oh my!

This might be a common question, but I am a little confused when it comes to appearances and labels!

I have seen some discussion on Copper vs Platinum. 1 Metallic gene vs 2.

And some pictures I have seen of Copper Bettas look like a metallic Silver body color. Some though look like they have a gold-ish tinge to them (what I would liken to a true copper color expression)

Now, Dragon appears to me like metallic, different colors, the scales look slightly different (sometimes) and it covers the head with a solid body color?

Does anyone have good examples of each these colors? Do they refer to an expressed color? Or purely on the genetic homozygous, heterozygous, recessive or dominant?

Or are people just throwing around terms, being indiscriminate?
Silverrealm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 12:30 AM   #2 
Silverrealm
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Canada
Here are some pictures which confuse me!
Attached Images
      
Silverrealm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 01:14 AM   #3 
louisvillelady
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Imho, people just throw around terms and do not use them accurately. Which makes it even harder for those of us who want to be accurate.

I may be wrong about some of these, but as far as I know, the first betta is a blue and yellow. Some would call blue and yellow mustard gas, which is actually a term that the breeder came up with to call his bettas. His bettas were a blue body with yellow fins with white and then blue edging. The yellow white and blue were kinda smokey, and faded into one another.

The next betta is a copper with black and white fins, and I believe that marking would be considered grizzle. However, I'm not sure if the coloring must also be on the body to be considered grizzle or not.

The picture of the next betta is a little hard to see, but believe that to also be a copper.

The next is green bicolor with red fins with wild type irids.

The next one is a dragon scale. Now, I'm confused by this one. I'm not sure if it would be considered black copper, or black dragon. I do know that it is a dragon scale. Without the camera, it would not look that purple in person. Or at least I would not think so.

The last one is a butterfly. And I believe it may be dragon scale as well.

Dragon scale is like a heavy coating on the scales of the fish. It doesn't have to cover the head. If the head has the dragon scaling it is called a mask. While it is believed that dragon scale brought about the mask, they are different traits and you can have one without the other.

When a term is describing the expressed traits of the fish, that is the phenotype. If it is used to describe the genetic makeup of the fish, it is the genotype. So some of these terms can be used to describe both, the physical characteristics and also the genetic makeup. But sometimes the genetic makeup of the fish may carry something that is recessive and is up against a dominate gene, and so therefore does not present itself.

I will attach a pic of my copper male. That is one that I readily have available to give you an example of.

Now, I could be very wrong on some of this. I do however read and research alot about bettas. The fish you gave as examples are not all that straightforward as to what they are.lol That is one of the beauties of this fish! Sooo many colors and combinations!
Attached Images
 
louisvillelady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 01:19 AM   #4 
louisvillelady
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Oh yeah, the one with red fins is also a dragon scale.
louisvillelady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 01:52 AM   #5 
Silverrealm
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Canada
Thanks so much for your input! Yes, Genotype and Phenotype are what I meant. It is late here and I have been researching Bettas for about 5 hours now, my brain is starting to go on me! LOL!

How do you know it is a dragon scale? Because the scales are thicker or overlap in a certain way or are metallic?

Thanks!

And why is yours considered a copper? Because of his color? Or His metallic phenotype/genotype?

Last edited by Silverrealm; 02-21-2013 at 01:54 AM.
Silverrealm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 01:58 AM   #6 
louisvillelady
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
lol I know what you mean by your brain is going! lol I've been known to do the same.

Dragon scale is when the scales are really thick. Non dragon scales look smooth and dragon looks like they have a coating on them. Im not real sure, but I believe dragon scale can be either metallic or not.

Mine is copper because of his color. Genetically, he is steel blue with two metallic genes.
louisvillelady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 02:05 AM   #7 
louisvillelady
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Here are some more examples of dragon scale. Look at the last fish. See where there looks like there are some scales missing on his side? That is what he would look like if he were not dragon scale.
Attached Images
    
louisvillelady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 03:08 AM   #8 
indjo
TFK Moderator
 
indjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Regular color - the natural colors, also found in wild splendens. Difference is that domesticated colors have been "separated" - but basically the same if mixed

Metallic color - is said to have single metallic genes which was achieved by crossing to a wild type. Copper was the first metallic color created.

Dragon scale - is not really a color but the scaling - thick looking scales. So dragons come in all colors. It is believed to have 2 metallic genes and was created from crosses to wilds as well.

When naming a color people often refer to it's basic color or "base color". Coppers, for example, come in many shades. Some are not even copper, but more grey or steel. Some may have gold, purple, green shimmers. But all are considered copper because that is their basic color genes.

Dragons are named after the color of their fins, except irid dragons (body and fins same color). So a red dragon has whitish body with red fins, yellow dragon has whitish body with yellow fins . . . and so on.

Commercial purposes often create new names for them - like red devils which is basically a red copper - copper based body with red fins.

Unless the lighting hides the real color, I'd say the first 3 pictures are copper based. # 4 is a red dragon, #5 is either steel blue or copper based and the PK looks like a black dragon.

Almost forgot; the full solid color up to the head is called "mask" and is said to be from a metallic trait (I don't agree). They say if you breed green to copper, you may get green mask . . . I never did. Most dragons are masked, meaning body color extends to the head. Regular and many metallic colors usually have blackish heads.
indjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 09:01 AM   #9 
Silverrealm
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Canada
Thanks for the info! It's hard in a non-standardized trade when it comes to naming conventions. I have seen it with snakes, so many different terms to describe color. I used to breed chinchillas, and for the most part the industry follows the fur trade nomenclature. So most of the colors used are "official" terms like Violet or Ebony.
Silverrealm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Copper/platinum genetics question louisvillelady Breeding Betta Fish 10 02-21-2013 01:27 AM
Red/Platinum Dragon Males bettasusa Betta Fish Classifieds 3 07-30-2012 12:36 PM
Red Dragon X Black Copper Dragon DarkMoon17 Breeding Betta Fish 113 04-09-2012 02:53 PM
New Betta~Feather tail Platinum dragon copperarabian Betta Pictures 20 11-03-2011 11:30 AM
red platinum dragon betta kitten_penang Betta Pictures 22 09-20-2010 04:50 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.