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Old 02-27-2013, 11:44 PM   #11 
soady
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Originally Posted by Saphira101 View Post
Hey, I mean you learn by doing, right? She's going to remove the gravel & tetras. Horizontal bars are stress stripes, and vertical bars are breeding stripes. I think she should give it a shot!

EDIT: wait a sec. You posted before I did! Whoops!
Yeap! :)

I am male. I guess he is not happy about me breeding a couple of petty veil tails is all... He's being ignorant.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:30 AM   #12 
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Red face I'm sorry!!

Oh goodness. I'm sorry!

I shouldn't say anyone's ignorant, he merely has different views from the rest of us. although I still think you should go ahead and breed your fishies :}
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:56 AM   #13 
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"Breeding stripes" aren't always a sign for breeding, as mentioned by Matts - it's just a form of communication. They show them for different reasons, submission (which is needed for spawning) is one of the reasons for the stripes, so they will get them when ready to breed as well as when being submissive for other reasons.

I would personally have the tank set up properly before attempting to breed, you can't change it once they breed.

You can technically use the gravel, but it's harder to keep clean - as you will be wanting to remove dead food daily with an airline tubing and gravel can make it a bit harder.. people who use substrate during breeding tend to use different sands rather than gravel.

Don't have a filter going in the tank - after the fry are free swimming you can then turn on a sponge filter, with the air pump set on low/valve turned down low. Any other filter will kill the fry.

Lowering the water level isn't a must - but it does make it easier on the male who will spend days swimming up and down collecting fallen eggs and fry (which bare bottom will make it easier for him to see them).

Remove all other fish from the tank before you try to breed. The male betta will try to kill them, or he will eat all his eggs if he feels he can't protect them - he would rather eat them than let another fish get them.

Nothing wrong with what you are wanting to breed, but the set up needs a bit of tweaking to make the survival of the fry possible. You want it "natural" which is great.. Oldfishlady breeds in full tanks, but they are very heavily planted without any other fish nor filter going.

Once the eggs are laid you can't disturb them nor bother the father.. once they are free swimming you can't go in and remove the substrate, etc without risking killing them.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:17 AM   #14 
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No worries, I will take good care. :) I will clean the tank, vacuum and put a flat surface over the gravel until the fry grow large enough. I will move the neons to the other side. I actually have a good plan on how I will do it. I will move the wood to the right and insert a glass divider. I will keep the fry and the male at the left and the female and the neons at the right side.

I said ignorant because of sentences like "The more fish on the shelves, the more fish that die." But he didn't know that we don't keep bettas on shelves, and that we take good care of them at the pet shops.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:37 AM   #15 
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Still not a safe way to house them.. a cover over the gravel will house so much bad bacteria as the dead worms will go through the cracks on the edges.. the male will be stressed being able to see the female and other fish - have to remember they naturally chase all other fish from their territory. He won't be able to focus on taking care of the nest/babies as he will be spending his time and his energy (which he needs for constant care of the nest) going over to the other side to flare and attempt to chase off the other fish. He won't be eating for days, won't sleep, so he needs his energy spent on caring for the constant falling of eggs/fry.. not flaring at the divider doing his best to chase away the other fish.

Makes me wonder what you have planned for their grow out tanks and jars... can't cut corners in breeding these fish.. they aren't as simple as live bearers. The male and female should have their own tanks as it is, not use the breeding tank as their home tank. Where do you keep them at normally? Why does the female have to be in the breeding tank? She will need to be away from the male as well.. females don't want to be near a male (even if divided), and especially not after breeding where she will be beat up and could be easily half dead from the process.. that is added stress on her too.

I must urge you to set it up properly if you are going to breed them. You are more than likely just going to end up killing all of the babies - what is the point to bring them into the world just to kill them because you don't have a breeding tank? You are placing all the fish into a stressful situation - the female could become overly aggressive to the other fish because she is being forced to be near the male, the male is going to be under a ton of stress because he can see the other fish/female so close to the nest, the tetras being in a smaller section and being chased/flared at all the time.. why risk their health (causing an outbreak in ich, etc) and their life (death caused by too much stress)? Go purchase a 10g from Walmart - set ups are $30, or just the tank for $12, and a heater that can heat it up to the proper temp.. then breed?

Normally I'm all for trying new techniques, but this isn't a technique, this is simply trying to breed just to breed but not put the time/money in that is needed to properly breed. Not trying to be rude by any means, but your ideal is not ideal.. IF you can even get them to breed (less of a chance due to the distraction of the other fish), why not do it where it gives the fry a good chance at surviving and growing healthy?

Technically, you may be able to get them to spawn with what you are wanting to do. But it's at a great risk.. and unsure if you want to risk the well being of the fish you care about..

How big is the tank?

Also keep in mind since you have to do daily large water changes for the fry for a few months.. if your tank is cycled you are risking the cycle crashing which would kill your fry in a heartbeat.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:49 AM   #16 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myates View Post
Still not a safe way to house them.. a cover over the gravel will house so much bad bacteria as the dead worms will go through the cracks on the edges.. the male will be stressed being able to see the female and other fish - have to remember they naturally chase all other fish from their territory. He won't be able to focus on taking care of the nest/babies as he will be spending his time and his energy (which he needs for constant care of the nest) going over to the other side to flare and attempt to chase off the other fish. He won't be eating for days, won't sleep, so he needs his energy spent on caring for the constant falling of eggs/fry.. not flaring at the divider doing his best to chase away the other fish.

Makes me wonder what you have planned for their grow out tanks and jars... can't cut corners in breeding these fish.. they aren't as simple as live bearers. The male and female should have their own tanks as it is, not use the breeding tank as their home tank. Where do you keep them at normally? Why does the female have to be in the breeding tank? She will need to be away from the male as well.. females don't want to be near a male (even if divided), and especially not after breeding where she will be beat up and could be easily half dead from the process.. that is added stress on her too.

I must urge you to set it up properly if you are going to breed them. You are more than likely just going to end up killing all of the babies - what is the point to bring them into the world just to kill them because you don't have a breeding tank? You are placing all the fish into a stressful situation - the female could become overly aggressive to the other fish because she is being forced to be near the male, the male is going to be under a ton of stress because he can see the other fish/female so close to the nest, the tetras being in a smaller section and being chased/flared at all the time.. why risk their health (causing an outbreak in ich, etc) and their life (death caused by too much stress)? Go purchase a 10g from Walmart - set ups are $30, or just the tank for $12, and a heater that can heat it up to the proper temp.. then breed?

Normally I'm all for trying new techniques, but this isn't a technique, this is simply trying to breed just to breed but not put the time/money in that is needed to properly breed. Not trying to be rude by any means, but your ideal is not ideal.. IF you can even get them to breed (less of a chance due to the distraction of the other fish), why not do it where it gives the fry a good chance at surviving and growing healthy?

Technically, you may be able to get them to spawn with what you are wanting to do. But it's at a great risk.. and unsure if you want to risk the well being of the fish you care about..

How big is the tank?

Also keep in mind since you have to do daily large water changes for the fry for a few months.. if your tank is cycled you are risking the cycle crashing which would kill your fry in a heartbeat.
Thank you a lot, for taking your time and giving good advice. :)

Check this thread out: http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=125760

You can see everything you need about my tank.

The male and the fry will be completely isolated from the female and the neons, the glass won't be see through. As for the gravel, I agree. I will remove all the gravel from the left side, put in more plants, then condition them with bloodworms and do everything right. If I don't get fantastic results, that's okay, it is my first time. I will feed them with infusoria for the first week and after that probably with frozen daphnia or some live culture. The breeding side of the tank will hold 4g, which is enough for a small number of fry, and the tank is 8g in whole so the water quality would be okay. Is there anything I missed mentioning?

I promise all will be good and i will post a spawn log once it is in action!
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:51 AM   #17 
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"the tetras being in a smaller section and being chased/flared at all the time.."

The female never chases them, only the male, and yet, they prefer to stay on his side. It is impossible for a betta to catch a neon tetra so I think they don't mind occasional attacks. They make a few circles and the betta gets dizzy. :D
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:57 AM   #18 
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This is ridiculous. You're calling me ignorant when you are breeding veiltails (I saw pics of them and their finnage isn't good even for veiltails.) when you could easily breed high quality, sellable fish. And yet you ignore our advice and are planning to spawn in a community tank. The bacteria will build up in the gravel and kill the fry. Any you cannot vacuum a fry tank. If you don't want to be criticized,do it right.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:02 AM   #19 
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Honestly if you only end up with 4 fry, this is not a suffiecient setup. Just being honest with you. You will need to do water changes, and that WILL CRASH your cycled tank and all your fish will die. On top of all that, what are you going to do with the fry? If you are able to get any to stay alive, which under these conditins, I do believe the Dad is going to eat them, and I am one that leaves Dadd with fry until they are grown, what are you going to do with the fry? If they are females, they tank is not going to be big enough to handle all those fish. If any of them are male, you will have no choice but to get another tank. If two or more are male???? I really don't get it. Why not just bite the bullet if you want to do this, and go buy a tank? You will have to eventually anyway. Regardless of all the things that we know to be wrong with this set up, given you all benefit of a doubt, if things go the way YOU say they will, in the end, you will still need to buy a tank.

I don't mean any disrespect by my response. You have not experienced breeding bettas, and so I understand you naivety. I wish for everyone who loves these fish the experience of seeing a spawn and raising their own fry. We, those who have successfully breed these and other fish, no you are setting yourself up for failure. Please step back, and think this through. I am sure in your heart of hearts that you would never harm any of your fish, and yet you are about to do just that. We have no reason to mis lead you on these facts. If you could breed them this way, trust me, we would all LOVE that! We go through a lot of work and money to do this because we know the way you are attempting does not work.

Please reconsider.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:09 AM   #20 
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I would like to share with you something that just happened this morning. I have several fish. One one shelf I have a male in a tank with a bare bottom. This is a wire shelf. On the shelf below, I have another tank with some rosey barbs. Now, I walk in this morning and the male betta has his nose pinned to the bottom in the corner of his tank. ??? What is he doing? I thought. I fed them, went about my business. Went back in, looked at tehm again, and again, he had his nose pinned to the corner of the tank. I was barefoot this time, and as I stepped closer my foot got wet. Looked around to find out where it was coming from, and the rosey barb tank had sprung a leak. While I was concerned with the betta, I had to fix this problem.

I changed out the tank the rosey barbs where in, cleaned up the mess. You know the betta has yet to do what he was doing before. Was he looking to see what the water was doing? Could he "hear" the water?

I have had fish my whole life. WHOLE LIFE. Growing up we had tanks in every room except the bathroom. Fish are more intelligent thatn you know. Just because the female isn't chasing the neons now, do not be surprised if she starts because she will know that there are her babies on the other side of that glass. Also, those neons will know that there are eggs somewhere in that tank. I had a 150 gallon tank with a bonded pair of marble angels. Whenever they would lay eggs, ALL the other fish behaviors would change. My pictus and red tail would begin fighting, my rosey barbs would be pushy toward the angels, it was a mess. It was because the other fish wanted to eat the eggs and they knew there was going to be eggs. I always knew they were getting ready to lay eggs because of the way the other fish behave.

Just because the other fish are getting along now, do not think for one minute that having eggs in that tank on the other side of a glass divider isn't going to effect them. Just because Dad cannot see the other fish, don't think for one moment he doesn't know that they are there. A 10gallon tank doesn't cost all that much. Also try craigslist. You may be able to pick you up a few tanks for a little bit of nothing!
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