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Old 03-15-2013, 12:08 PM   #21 
OrangeAugust
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Fishie, my Rosetail HM is a chronic tail biter. He started biting after I had him for about 2 months. I thought it was because of the filter current because it increased when the cartridge got gunked up and started flowing out of the overflow area. I moved him to a 1-gallon to treat him with AQ salt while I got the filter in the 5 gallon straightened out. His tail was healing really slowly because of my hard water at the time. Once the 5 gallon was running ok, I moved him back in there. But he kept biting.
When I moved in November, my mom's friend gave me a 10 gallon tank that a former boyfriend of hers had left at her house. I divided it for my three bettas, and put Fishie in the opposite side of the tank from where the filter is. There's no filter current in his section, but he continues to bite his fins. He even keeps his ventral fins short! I think he just got into the habit of doing it and now he won't stop. It's really sad because his tail was soooo beautiful and now it's all ragged all the time.
Hopefully your boy will stop biting. But there are chronic biters out there who never stop biting their tails.
Even my HMDT bites sometimes, but it's almost always his dorsal fin! It usually grows back in for a while before he bites it again, so it doesn't look bad for very long.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:18 PM   #22 
callistra
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You can't dry cut meds. It is not accurate enough. When dosing you dissolve the full dose of meds in the same parts of something as the med is meant to treat.. so for the Triple Sulfa that is meant to treat 10 gallons, dissolve in 10 parts treated/tank water.. either 10 cups or 10 tablespoons etc. then take as many parts of the mixture into the tank as water your tank holds.. so for your 2.5g, use 2.5 of the same parts into the tank.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:27 PM   #23 
ptps
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Oh god, you can't?! Good thing I haven't started! Geez though, where would I find a ten gallon container on such short notice... I've got a recycling plastic bin that might hold that much but I don't know how I would keep the mixture. I don't think I have enough containers to hold 10g of liquid! Urgh...

Edit: Cal, I found an older post where you replied, another owner measured out the medication using a weight scale. My partner has a digital scale, do you think it would work if I did the same? I really don't think I can have ten 1G milk jugs around the house full of this stuff lol. As much as I think it would be better to mix it in the way you described!

Double edit: It must be idiot day for me. I just realized you meant ten *parts*, not gallons! I might be able to do that, especially since a cycle is four doses. It's safe to mix with Stress Coat yeah? Since SC is a dechlorinator but with aloe Vera?

OrangeAugust: That's terrible D: I love Rose tails, it sounds like such a pity your bad boy doesn't stop biting his tail!

Last edited by ptps; 03-15-2013 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Misreading stuff
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:21 PM   #24 
callistra
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Stress coat is fine to use.

Should have added you need to toss the extra mixture and mix a fresh dose daily because the meds start to lose their effectiveness once they hit liquid.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:44 PM   #25 
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Huh, maybe I'll use the scale measure to do it then, if they don't work as well while mixing... I'll have to add it relatively soon, just came home and Fish bit another bunch out of his dorsals and there's red on there now too when there was none this morning ): I'll post updates in a couple days if anything changes, thank you!
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:58 PM   #26 
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I would suggest the mix method. Scales are often off and when you're talking about such a small quantity the liquid mix method is the safest.

Good luck!
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:34 PM   #27 
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Hey Callistra, I did the mix method in the end - I guess I hadn't considered exactly how small the medication packet was! I just did the second day's 100% WC with second dose.

Still no changes regarding regrowth so far (although it looks like he hasn't been biting at least anyway), but one thing concerning me is that Fish really hates to go in the cup; he's actually actively trying to avoid it now even with a pellet/flake tossed in (while catching him and after getting him upright; he doesn't eat them either but will eat again if I feed him when he's back in the tank). I am acclimating him for the recent WC and he's wriggling furiously all around the cup, slamming himself against the floor bottom and the walls trying to "return" to the tank. New blood spots formed on the end of his tail fin just after I typed this. ): It's kind of a one step forward two steps back thing going on here, but it's pretty distressing watching him hurt himself over and over...

Once he's back in the tank he behaves as normal though, swimming around and eating normally. He just HATES the cup. I can't think of any other way to change his water 100% and acclimating him after without it. The weird thing I've noticed is that his pelvic and anal fins keep getting longer and longer with the water changes, which is a good thing, but I wish the fin regrowth rate on his other damaged fins would be just as fast!

Last edited by ptps; 03-16-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:52 PM   #28 
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More TL;DR progress!

I'm almost done with the first round of Triple Sulfa, just put in the fourth dose. I don't know if this is the right thing to do, but I'm going to discontinue the daily 100% changes. Fish, while still very healthy in terms of behavior, eating, and swimming, has been worse to his own tail since I started messing with his WC schedule - now almost half of the half that was originally there has been lost to his biting. I caught him swimming in circles for half an hour yesterday just idly chasing and nipping at his tail until I went over and chased him a bit with my finger to get him to stop. ): All his other fins are actually growing out, including the nips in his dorsal - but his tail. He's trimmed it down so much it would make a Plakat jealous.

This is what I've done the last week with Triple Sulfa (mix method):

Day 1 of treatment: 100% change, 1st dose out of four. Lowered the water in his 2.5G to 1G, dosed 1 part sulfa, and 2.5ml Stress Coat (instructions 1ml per gallon). Tail: Fresh damage with some red spots as posted previously.
Day 2: 100% change, 2nd dose after 24 hours as per instructions. 2ml Stress Coat and 1 part sulfa to 1G water. Tail had healed up slightly and red spots had disappeared, but reappeared from new damage during acclimation him back to the WC. Tail chewed a little more than previously.
Day 3: Removed 25% - 40% of tank water, replaced with equivalent with Stress Coat. Tail healing very slightly; translucent webbing growing back (0.5mm).
Day 4: 100% change, 3rd dose, 1.5 parts Sulfa and 2.5ml Stress Coat to 1.5G. Tail bitten again, only about 1cm between shortest part of tail and Fish's body.
Day 5 (today): 100% change, fourth dose, 1.5 parts Sulfa and 2.5ml Stress Coat to 1.5G.Tail slightly shredded at shortest end (I think that was the furthest he could reach back without breaking his spine). Currently acclimating, ready to go in half an hour. Noticed a little "hole" in his tail maybe 0.1mm big, near the tips where he was biting.

Other notes: I've noticed that his worst attacks seem to come every time he feels he doesn't have sufficient space to hide (the first time I took out the column decoration, he ate half his tail; took out the five-leafed Java Fern to dose him but put in a 6" silk sword plant instead; he bit his tail, etc).

Along with the second Java Fern mentioned previously, I also picked up a four-leafed Anubias (yeah, crappy, but it was the only one they had and they're forever out of stock), and a little plastic Hermit Crab house for him to hide in (was the only thing without sharp edges). The Cabomba turned out more trouble than I could handre so I tossed it (dried out, in the garbage bin).

The Hermit House wouldn't stay sunk as I originally suspected, so I've put it sideways in the tank like how I've seen some people do with pots in their Betta tanks, with some of the river rocks weighing it down. The plants come out of quarantine tomorrow after I finish his last 100% WC, then I'll arrange them in his tank so he has plenty of things to hide in while still having swimming room space. I'm thinking of going back to my 50%, 100% WC schedule while keeping up with Stress Coat; the daily changes don't seem to be helping him heal and he healed a lot faster with his pelvic fin rot when I first got him and didn't WC so frequently. Then again, I was using aquarium salt, but I can't use it now since I used it too much before, so idk. :/

Is this a bad idea? I just don't see any improvement...
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:28 PM   #29 
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I feel like I'm talking to myself.

Anyway, update: Fish's tail is finally healing back (yay!), there's new transparent growth starting (about 5mm to date) and while it's very slow, it's definitely progress. The additional plants definitely helped, he's a lot calmer and hasn't been biting now that he has stuff to hide in, although he hates the hermit house (what a waste). I might pick up another silk plant for him in future since my java fern seems to die/thrive in halves but for now he's doing great.

As usual, with every progress he makes there's a little set back: Right at the area where his new tail is growing out, where it meets the rest of his old tail, a little dark/black spot appeared on the last day of his WC. I've suspected it might be the start of fin rot so I've changed his water again and will keep it changed 50% every 2 days, with a 100% at the end of the week because he took very badly to daily 100%. I've also added aquarium salt for now but will stop if there is no progress by end of the week and retreat with Triple Sulfa.

I'm keeping a close eye to make sure no other spots appear, so far looks good.

In other news, because I need to rant and no one reads this thread anyway: The place I work has a 10 (maybe 15?) gallon tank with a bunch of non-Betta, exotic freshwater fish in it. (The tank was previously housing a single google-eyed Goldfish, who has since been rescued and rehomed into a 5G after the guy taking care of him quit.) Every weekend I go in to look at the fish in the 10G and it horrifies me because:

(1) The fish are obviously suffering, the tank hasn't been changed or washed since the Goldfish got taken out and it shows. The substrate is ridiculously filthy, it's completely black. You can literally see feces all over the decorations, even Goldfish feces from when it was still living in there a month ago. I can't imagine the NO2/NO3/NH3-N build-up in there.
(2) At least 80% of the fish die every week, and new ones are introduced immediately to replace them without being quarantined or acclimated.
(3) It's overstocked, there are at least ten -twelve fish every time. The fish are not tiny fish so I'm pretty sure at least some of them need a 20G.
(4) All the new additions of various species into the tank without quarantine has brought about some serious health issues that have either been ignored or just not noticed due to ignorance. The tank currently has a horrendous case of Ich, fin rot, and there are always at least two -four dead fish stuck in the tank that don't get removed until the people come back on the weekdays. The fish with Ich are literally covered in a white specks.

I'm thinking about bringing it up when they get in tomorrow but I'm nervous because (1) I don't work directly with them, so it might be none of my business / kind of rude (2) I'm not an expert on fish. But even an amateur like me can recognize what's wrong with their tank and why their fish keep on dying! I've seen almost twenty fish die in the one month they've had the tank and it's driving me insane. I want to tell them to stop buying the damn fish, clean out the filthy substrate and scrub the whole tank, and just quarantine / re-cycle the entire tank for a while until it's clean before adding more.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:57 PM   #30 
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Can you offer to take care of the tank? Maybe that would be a relief to them.

Glad to hear your betta is getting better, but booo for a new dark area. It is interesting that tail biting seems to have so many causes. Glad you found some solutions!
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