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Old 03-30-2009, 08:47 AM   #1 
Virus
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Exclamation 10 Gallon - Sufficient?

I'm considering getting two Betta now. A male and a female.
Maybe with hopes of breeding but I have no breeders nearby and am inable to have a fish shipped to me.
I am recieving a ten gallon from my grandparents and once I purchase a hood and a heater I think I want two Betta - a male and a female crowntail.
They will most likely be purchased from Petsmart and just to start off the Male I was originally intending on purchasing (behind my mum's back) was to be living in a three gallon with one live plant.
Now I'm thinking about purchasing the three gallon and babysitting once more to purchase a hood, two other Bettas and some things for the 10 gallon tank including a divider.
I have regular water treatment liquid as well as Spring Water on hand.
Which water would be better?
I currently own a Tiger Oscar and a Common Goldfish.
My Oscar is young(3 1/2 inches) and living in a 5 1/2 gallon and my goldfish in a 1 gallon.
My oscar will soon be moved into a 35 gallon so he has sufficient room to grow.
Then I will have a 5 1/2 gallon on hand as well.
My frog(African Clawed Frog) is coming in tomorrow and once he/she grows out of the tank I purchased with the frog kit, i'll have a small tank to house a guppie or two.
If I do, in turn purchase three Betta, and intend on breeding, would two female, or two male be better and does anyone know around how much I can sell them to the petstore for?
Thank you.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:16 AM   #2 
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A 10 gallon is sufficient for two bettas separated by a divider. I have several 10 gallons that I do this with. Leaving each betta with 5 gallons each is a good bit of room, and it provides them with the ability to have company for entertainment without the risk of fighting or one fish potentially killing the other. Make sure you have plants and/or caves in each section, so that if one of the bettas does not want to have the other betta in their line of sight, they can go hide behind a decoration. I keep males in my divided tanks, and currently have no female bettas, but I see no reason why it would not work with a female on one side, she'd still be separated from the male so they couldn't fight. The divider would also help to prevent any undue baby accidents from happening.
In terms of water? I use normal tap water with fish declorafier. Spring water is a joke. It's over glorified tap water in a bottle. 'Purified' water is often filtered to such a point as that it no longer even contains the trace nutrients that normal water should, which is also not good for a fish (it's not really good for humans either, but no one ever listens to that anymore do they? I guess they all like diarrhea).

You will need more than just a single 10 gallon tank for breeding purposes however. Betta need a 20 gallon long or larger tank for proper breeding, and plenty of additional tanks to 1) remove the female after the spawning 2) remove the male several days after the fry have hatched and are free-swimming 3) each and every male fry will need it's own grow-out jar as they cannot be left in with their siblings once they start developing adult finnage and aggression.
The cost you'll be able to sell them to a store for? Well, look at how much your LFS sells bettas for. Now divide that in half. Or more. Most LFS want wholesale prices on their fish if they're buying, which ultimately results in you not making much for these guys. If a store sells crowntails for six bucks, you'll be lucky to get three per fish. If they only sell them for 3 bucks, what does that leave you with? Yeah, a whopping 1.50. The amount of time, space (seriously, if you have to sneak these fish in past your mom, you're going to have to have some kind of wicked magic skills to pull off her not noticing the amount of tanks, heaters and lights you're going to end up with for breeding them) and money that is required for breeding is not generally a good idea for smething to be undertaken if you need to be sneaking around just to get a single betta in the first place. It's expensive, time consuming, and you won't be making a profit, so don't bother if that was your original goal.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:35 AM   #3 
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Profit is far from my original goal.
I'm just growing on Betta's and my mum doesn't have the right to kill any fish of mine.
Do the males just build a bubblenest atop the water?
I've been watching videos on YouTube and they all have leaves and styraphome cups sliced in halves.
If the tank I breed them in (20 gal) is divided, will that be better than those cramp-y plastic containers they sell you to put on the side of the tank or to float?
Do they sell dividers for all shapes of fish tanks, or just rectangular ones?
I have a 35 gal on hand but it's not rectangular.
I actually wouldn't know what shape to call it, although it does not have curves.
My mum's just going to have to deal with the fact that if she would've let me have that hampster I wanted when I was eight.. I wouldn't be obsessed with aquatic animals and keep wanting more.
Man, I need more dressers. lol
Hopefully I'll be babysitting twice more before Spring Break is out and recieving the rest of my money from last night and the income from those two times as well.
I get paid 20 dollars on average, and 40 if I'm there longer. I may be getting paid over 40 this time. She gave me 20 and said she'd get the rest to me later in the week.
Then I'll talk my step-father into taking me to petsmart or the newly-discovered petco about 30 minutes away.
-devious smile-
I love fish.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:58 AM   #4 
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Hehe, I'm not getting into legal rights on this forum. It's about the well-being of the fish, not about whose property they technically are and who has the right to do what with them.

Yes, males build bubblenests at the top of the water, or under something that floats at the surface of the water, as a shelter. For breeding purposes, this 'under something' method is usually prefered. Some people use a styrofoam cup cut in half, some like more natural means like a dried indian almond leaf or a section of dried banana leaf (my personal choice, but simply because they are good for the fish and I have plenty of banana trees around here to get them from).

I don't recomend dividing the 20 gallon because you have to have someplace to put all the females too, which is usually just staying in the 20 gallon as a group and forming a female sorority. Besides, you can't divide a 20 gallon enough to hold all the males. Betta fish lay HUNDREDS of eggs. It is not uncommon in a spawn to have 50-100+ males and just as many females. You really just can't divide a 20 gallon that many ways. The recomended way is that each male gets a 1 gallon 'grow-out' tank/jar to finish maturing in while the females stay in the 20 gallon.

Tank dividers. I don't buy them from stores, because my experiences with most of the store bought ones in the past have been extremely disappointing (you were supposed to keep the fish from being able to get to each other! Why are two of my males on one side of the tank?!). I make my own tank dividers. They work better, and they are a hell of a lot cheaper (who doesn't love cheap?)
http://www.fishforum.com/diy-aquariu...ividers-21866/
Check it out, it's a pretty easy way to get a divider. Also, those mesh sheets can be bound together very easily (some fishing line works nicely, don't use thread, it tends to have color dies in it which leak in the water and it decays) to make a divider for a larger tank. Using some aquarium silicone to stick the binders to the side of the tank for a curved tank is best for a proper seal.

It's not the shape so much as the size and depth (hence why a 20 gallon long is recomended, not a 20 gallon tall). The water level will be lowered to around 6 inches in depth for spawning and rasining the fry anyhow, so a larger tank is absolutely pointless if the volume is vertical.

Do your research before breeding. You will want to have all of your supplies set-up and ready well before you attempt breeding, because 'last-minute' in betta breeding is normally already too late. The fry are especially vulnerable to many diseases when they are young, and can easily die off if they aren't carefully monitored.
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:16 AM   #5 
Virus
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Alright. What are the chances of 50-100 male fry the first time around?
I don't think I can get away with THAT many tanks. lol
I'm absolutely doing my research before I breed.
I've done that with all of my fish.
I know better than to buy a fish, put it in a tank and expect it to prosper.
Breeding fish is always so much fun.
Mollies just lost my interest because you simply put two in a tank and move the female when you know she's preggers.
Even if I decide not to breed, I think Betta will be a good addition to my fish-family.
I want my room as lively as possible at 14.
I'm supposed to be saving up for that iTouch I want but you all here on FishForum are terrible influences.
That's okay.
I encourage people to get fish all the time, too.
I'm not sure if I want to try mating - Just purchasing a male and a female or just keeping one Male.
I'm looking into a variety of different fish and considering having many differing sorts.
No one in my family seems to think my Oscar, "Poe" will make it much longer.
They never think my fish will love past a week for I too, was a COMPLETE newbie once and kept fish in poor conditions without even knowing so.
If, for some odd reason, my Poe doesn't make it, I'll have one extra tank to fill with a beautiful fish.
He's been acting a bit odd, but the lady at my lps said I'm doing everything right.
She's informed and knows what she's talking about.
I trust her sompletely. She's always there and she's actually advised me AGAINST purcases so all lps workers aren't bad, but one of the other ladys gave me a JD instead of a Tiger Oscar and he died because I was caring for him like he was an Oscar.
I bought him special Tiger Oscar food and everything and had the tank set up for a Tiger Oscar.. not a JD.
It was horrid and I feel bad for doing such to the poor fish.
We were in a hurry at the lps, though so I didn't examine him much.
)':
Poor Killer, RIP.
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Old 03-30-2009, 09:57 PM   #6 
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Just as good the first time as any other time? The numbers will only decrease if you don't take of them, because they will all die after they hatch.
50-100 males is a reasonable number of males to expect in a spawn. It is not uncommon for there to be 200+ fry in a single spawn, so 1/4 to 1/2 of the population being male is pretty reasonable. Also, even in smaller groups, sometimes there are more males than females (supposedly this has something to do with the temperatures the water is kept at, along with certain extracts and stuff that are in the water, but be darned if I've been able to find any more detailed information yet about what those exact parameters are supposed to be that help determine the male to female ratio).

Perhaps instead of attempting to breed, if you want variety, you should instead just look into having several different kinds of fish species in your various tanks. You already sound like you have a fair collection of tanks in your room, so there's really no need to try and cram even more tanks in there when you don't exactly have approving parents of the practice anyhow.
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:50 AM   #7 
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Yeah. I really want to find a local breeder and purchase a beautiful fish from. Maybe a halfmoon and a crowntail for the 10gal with a divider in it. My little Bill isn't doing so great. He needs meds for finrot, I think he has a touch of vevet and possibly ich. He is also very petite. My mum didn't allow me sufficient time to choose and she was breathing down my neck the entire time.
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