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Old 04-29-2013, 08:08 PM   #11 
intothebloo
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Originally Posted by tekkguy View Post
Eco-Complete contains NO fertilizer. It is high CEC, so it can hang onto fertilizer, but you absolutely definitely need to use fertilizer with it - even root tabs. It is completely inert on its own. Even the packaging tells you that.
Here.. howbout I give you some quotes from the manufacturers & Sellers..

Why does Eco-Complete™ planted aquarium substrate outperform other products? For the same reason that Hawaii, Bali and Costa Rica are famous for lush, exuberant plant growth. The secret lies in rich basaltic volcanic soil which contains iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur plus over 25 other elements to nourish your aquatic plants. Eco-Complete™ Planted Aquarium Substrate is mineralogically and biologically complete, giving you luxuriant aquatic plant growth without nuisance algae! Iron rich Eco‑Complete™ eliminates the need for laterite. No artificial dyes, paints, or chemical coatings. Eco-Complete™ has highly porous spherical grains for optimum diffusion performance and contains live Heterotrophic bacteria to rapidly convert fish waste into natural food for your aquatic plants. It establishes a natural biological balance which makes cycling a new aquarium faster and safer.


and this one:


Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate contains more than 25 minerals to nourish aquatic plants. Packed in Liquid Amazon buffered "Black Water" solution, Eco-Complete offers immediate organic water conditioning - no rinsing required. Choose coarse- or fine-grade (black only) substrate to suit your exact needs. Eco-Complete includes live, Heterotrophic bacteria to convert fish waste into natural food for your plants. Both original Eco-Complete Black and Eco-Complete Red are iron rich and eliminate the need for laterite supplementation.


Sounds like it contains fertilizers to me? CEC has to do with the cations relating to PH value of a soil.. it's talking about the fact that it's able to hang onto the nutrients that it has.. and then some. Eco-complete is porous so it's able to not only retain it's nutrients (not losing the ones it already has) and accumulate new.. as well as host lots of bacteria. The definition of fertlizer is a natural or chemical substance added to a substrate to increase fertility. Natural/chemical substances are for example: iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur.

Last edited by intothebloo; 04-29-2013 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:12 AM   #12 
heavenlolwut
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I really don't care if they mix. :] So I may throw the sand in anyway!
Thank you guys a bunch and thank you for not minding me hijacking the thread!
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:09 AM   #13 
tekkguy
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Originally Posted by intothebloo View Post
Here.. howbout I give you some quotes from the manufacturers & Sellers..

((SNIP))

Sounds like it contains fertilizers to me? CEC has to do with the cations relating to PH value of a soil.. it's talking about the fact that it's able to hang onto the nutrients that it has.. and then some. Eco-complete is porous so it's able to not only retain it's nutrients (not losing the ones it already has) and accumulate new.. as well as host lots of bacteria. The definition of fertlizer is a natural or chemical substance added to a substrate to increase fertility. Natural/chemical substances are for example: iron, calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulfur.
Minerals and fertilizers are DIFFERENT things. Please see their own site:

http://www.caribsea.com/itempage_fre...ecoplanted.htm

Search for the word "fertilizer" on that page. You will find the following:

Quote:
Question:
Hi i was wondering how long does the Eco-Complete™ Planted last in a tank and also is it ok to add like a samd on top or will that defeat the purpose of the Eco-Complete™ Planted and lastly does Eco-Complete™ Planted take in the nutrients from the water column and feed the roots with it cause im gonna fertilize the water column and need a substrate that will do that.

Answer:
Eco-Complete™ Planted will last indefinitely. It won’t break down or turn to mud. Eco-Complete™ Planted will supply trace elements that the plant needs but does not supply a fertilizer component ie. N,P or K. You either need to add the fertilizer or have fish in there that you feed regularly.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:46 AM   #14 
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All subtrates, whether they have minerals/ferts in them out of the bag will eventually become inert.

Only reason I am using FloraMax is because it was on sale for $10 a bag. Otherwise I would have probably gotten sand LOL.

If you have stem plants, with roots growing under the substrate, and are not using root tabs, you are hindering yourself and your plants. Dont feel like paying $6 for API Root tabes only to get like 12 tabs? Find someone selling homemade Osmocote+ Gel Tabs. For $6 you can usually get 50 of those. Follow the makers instructions, and they should last 3 months.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:49 AM   #15 
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Really? Those gel tabs on Ebay and such actually work?

I thought they might eventually poison your fish or something.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:18 AM   #16 
intothebloo
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The true definition of fertilizer is natural and chemical substances to better the fertility of a plant. Minerals (ie natural substances that better the fertility of a plant) and other chemical compounds fall into that category. They even state in that quote naturally occuring chemical compounds due to the waste of fish are going to add to the developement of your plants (ie nitrogen) and what I said (to add liquid fertilizers - which contain get this! Not only several chemical compounds ! BUT MINERALS AND TRACE ELEMENTS). Read a bottle of fertilizer, what does it have in it? You stated you use Comprehensive read it. My bottle says it contains the following: Nitrogen,Phosphate,Potash,CALCIUM,MAGNESIUM,SULFUR ,BORON,CHLORINE,COBALT,COPPER,IRON,MANGANESE,MOLYB DENUM,SODIUM,ZINC. (Those all look like minerals and trace elements to myself, plus nitrogen and phosphate are already naturally occurring in your water.. Unless you're using reverse osmosis ofcourse, that would then require the need to add small amounts of phosphate)

Im not even going to bother with other "ferts", anyone can see what element they are used to to source on the bottle.. Take a chemistry course or two...

Going on what I've said, if you use good lighting, a good substrate, liquid fertilizers and CO2 and you'll be set. No need for root tabs because the substrate already contains the minerals you need for healthy roots.. I never said you didn't have to dose extra fertilizers I just said the substrate eliminated the need for root tabs as that is why it was designed... to give your roots what they need... I've never used root tabs and my planted aquariums are thriving.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:27 AM   #17 
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Really? Those gel tabs on Ebay and such actually work?

I thought they might eventually poison your fish or something.
Yes, but if you buy some make sure you buy Osmocote+ tablets, and not just Osmocote. The + contains a better mix of nutrients. Also, make sure that they are DEEP in the substrate so you don't have any nutrient spikes in the water column.

As to the other questions regarding EcoComplete, I won't respond any further. It is obvious that there are some on this thread that are becoming incapable of carrying on a decent conversation, and cannot understand the difference between trace elements and fertilizer. You can do some research and figure out what you think is best.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:38 AM   #18 
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:)
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:48 PM   #19 
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I wouldn't buy off eBay, but I guess it couldn't hurt. I buy my capsules from other planted tank members on other forums. Also best place to get plants.

No one is saying you can't grow plants without root tabs. I can grow plants in Petco Sand. But it also depends on what you are growing. The typical plants you can get from Petco/Petsmart are not going to require a ton of work to keep. Same for mosses.

But there are plants that you will require different ferts for or you will just fail. And either way, all plants can benefit from proper liquid ferts and root tabs.

Just like CO2 is no requirement for many plants as well. But some you either will fail or have very little growth without using CO2 or at least something like Excel. And again, all plants will benefit (for the most part) form CO2 or Excel. Some choose not to use it because of the price to properly do it right. Some because of the degree of difficulty. Others choose not too because they do not want to have to do daily trimming because the plants are growing so fast.

Also, do not cap something like Ecocomplete with sand, at least from what I know and my experience. It will just suck the sand down.
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