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Old 05-11-2013, 07:27 PM   #11 
bniebetta
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Also, what you are working with has a lot to do with it. If you get ten Tetras from the same place, sure, it may be more plausible to put them in a bigger QT environment that is capable of being cycled properly. But, for instance, if you are starting a 20 gallon betta sorority tank, it would be highly impractical, or yes, impossible for a great many people to even have 10 bettas each in even just 5 gallon properly cycled QT tanks. The cost and time involved in maintaining that many tanks is astounding. MOST fishkeepers just don't have that advantage. So no, it is not always recommended to do it that way and is most definitely not always ideal.

Also, I never said it was impossible. I said it was impractical and impossible for a lot of people, which is true (as has been stated by my example).
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:49 PM   #12 
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When I QT new fish, I use an empty 10 gallon tank that I keep only for QT purposes. I keep it stored with it's own separate gravel vacuum, heater, thermometer, and net and these are used only for this particular tank and when I need it, I just drag it all out. I also keep a separate little filter rated for 10 gallons running at all times on my main tank (in addition to the canister filter) so that when I need it, it is ready and available and already cycled. This way I can provide new fish with a cycled QT.

Like jaysee, I also QT any new fish for at least 4 weeks because after I've gone to the trouble to set up a whole new tank, I'm going to make sure any new fish is free of disease before I put it/them in the main tank. It's a lot of trouble but a whole lot less trouble than treating a bunch of sick fish later.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:31 PM   #13 
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i agree 1000000% with Jaysee.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:06 PM   #14 
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It is possible to quar without cycling the tank, container, or whatever. Just plan on changing a lot of water daily, and using a lot of one of the many products available that contain hydromethane sulfinate or a similar ammonia converting chemical. Run an air supply, don’t even bother with a filter.

Most people won’t do this, and do opt for a quar tank, whether kept running & cycled via various methods, or as jaysee mentioned, cloning. I’ve cloned everything from 2.5 gallon tanks to 150 gallon tubs, all it takes is a bit of understanding how the nitrifying bacteria do their thing, as well as how some of the water products available work. It does amount to an instant cycle, and does not affect the donor tank. I can expand on this a bit, as well as explain how to take a mature tank with 10 fish & safely add 50+ fish without any problems. Trust me, if I’m doing it it’s not rocket science.

To get to the OP's question, I quar 2 weeks from a known source, meaning I know the person, have seen their fishroom & such. Unknown source is 4 weeks, a shop, auction fish & so on. I believe quarantine originally comes from 17th century Latin or some such, meaning 40 days.

Last edited by Tolak; 05-11-2013 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Answer OP's question
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:16 PM   #15 
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I'm going to point out a few things here.

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Originally Posted by bniebetta View Post
I disagree. Most people are unable to QT in a cycled environment unless they have multiple tanks at their disposal and a lot of equipment. Also, a full cycle is usually at its best when the BB has objects to cling to, things that are hard or unwise to have in the tank if you are medicating fish. Most of the QT containers I have seen have little to nothing in them.
Extra tanks are a dime a dozen. All it takes is a quick look on Craigslist to find some extra 10 or even 40 gal tanks laying around. And as you said before, it doesn't have to be a fish tank that you QT fish in. I personally use large tubs. Those are much easier to store. I even use them to hold fishkeeping equipment when they aren't QTing fish.

Now to your comment about having nothing in a QT tank; this is a terrible idea. Leaving a fish in the open causes stress. Fish, especially small ones like objects to hide behind because it makes them feel safe from predators, real and imagined. A bare tank is not a QT tank. It is not doing what a QT tank should: make the fish comfortable in its new home. De-stress the fish and it will take care of a lot of issues itself. They have pretty good immune systems when they aren't being compromised by stresses of an improper environment.

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Also, many people find it either impossible or impractical to QT fish in a container that is actually large enough to even have a cycle. Unless you have a 5+ gallon you can't really do a cycle.
This may be true for a betta, but this doesn't hold true for any other fish. This includes shoalers like tetra. They actually need a lot more room than most people think.

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If anything, your fish are more likely to get sick and display signs of illness in an uncycled environment. It seems to me that having perfect water params is more likely to hide an illness a fish may carry.
Yes, fish are more likely to get sick in an uncycled tank, but the purpose of QT isn't to bring out the illnesses in fish. It is to heal any that arise. In a good QT fish don't get sick. They are de-stressed enough to heal themselves. I think it would do you good to read this article on stress and fish: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...um-fish-98852/

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I have rarely heard of people who are able to do cycled QTs, and I stand by what I said about not being able to cycle a tank in 24 hours. Unless you have a fully planted tank, this seems impossible. Mods, correct me if I am wrong.
As jaysee and Tolak said, if you bring over enough media it will cycle the tank. I have done this personally a handful of times. Never had an ammonia spike and all the fish made it through perfectly fine. I've even had gourami spawn in my QT tanks.

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I was able to QT some of my sorority in cycled environments and their behavior in the permanent tank is radically different than it was in quarantine. I feel that physical signs of illness is a far better indication of their health (except for obvious lethargy or very strange behavior) than behavior.
Could this be from the stress that is living in a sorority tank? That is not a low-stress environment. What you saw in a less-stress QT was how they should act and what you are seeing now is how they act under stress.

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--snip--
Because the original question was in context of a very specific forum, I am not incorrect by my response that is applicable to that context, --snip--.
Yes. It is a betta forum, but these are NOT betta fish that we are talking about. We talking here as if this were a regular fishkeeping forum. This is the advice I would give to ANY fishkeeper getting tetras regardless of whether or not they also keep bettas. The fact that this is a regular fishkeeping subforum on a betta forum is irrelevant.

I would like to end by saying that MOST fishkeepers I know QT rather strictly. A lot of us have been bitten in the butt by not doing so. We are only passing on our recommendations based on our (sometimes very extensive) experience.

In this case I would just use a 5 gal tank or a 20 gal tub. Clone the media, and let them stay in the tank for a month. Maybe more if the fish in the tanks look sick. Floating plants whether real or fake will be greatly appreciate, and you can add mirrors to the tank to give the shoalers the appearance of a complete shoal. I've used this trick before, and it works wonders.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:08 AM   #16 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bniebetta View Post
Also, what you are working with has a lot to do with it. If you get ten Tetras from the same place, sure, it may be more plausible to put them in a bigger QT environment that is capable of being cycled properly. But, for instance, if you are starting a 20 gallon betta sorority tank, it would be highly impractical, or yes, impossible for a great many people to even have 10 bettas each in even just 5 gallon properly cycled QT tanks. The cost and time involved in maintaining that many tanks is astounding. MOST fishkeepers just don't have that advantage. So no, it is not always recommended to do it that way and is most definitely not always ideal.

Also, I never said it was impossible. I said it was impractical and impossible for a lot of people, which is true (as has been stated by my example).
Yes, the fish you are quarantining have a lot to do with it - thank you for bringing that up as it has not been touched on yet. Neon tetras are sensitive to water quality. It is not wise to quarantine sensitive species in uncycled tanks.

EVERY tank that has a fish in it should be cycled (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite). Each and every one. There is no exception. I can't believe that this is even being contested.

The cost and time to maintain a bunch of tanks is not astounding, and I say that as someone who has at one point had 18 tanks running. I know it may seem that way to some, but it really isn't. Honestly, it's more work to do daily water changes and be concerned about poisoning the fish than it is to maintain a dozen fish tanks.

I know you mean well, there is no doubt about that. But you cannot take offense when people call you out on saying things that just aren't true. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but opinions do not trump facts, which means they can be incorrect.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:43 PM   #17 
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welp, i am going to try to completely ignore this fat argument that went on. i asked a simple question!
but anywho, for QT-ing my tetras, can i just give them a small dose of AQ salt to treat them...? or should i go out to petsmart and get certain additional meds for them? (IF SO PLEASE NAME)
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:01 PM   #18 
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As I mentioned, if they're from a shop a 4 week quar is advisable. I wouldn't use any salt with them, no reason to and with neons it will do more harm than good. I would not medicate healthy fish either, another thing that can cause more harm than good.

Running a tank for 24 hours is not cycling, do you have another established tank running?
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:21 PM   #19 
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I agree. Do not treat healthy fish. Nothing good comes from it. Treat when you see disease. Most preventative treatments are weak and broad spectrum. When you can ID a disease, you can get something powerful and specific.
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:27 PM   #20 
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Quarantining tetras is no different than quarantining any other farm raised fish - aside from the precautions that I choose to take mentioned in post #5, it's really just a matter of observing the fish and looking for anything that might indicate a problem. Some problems take longer to manifest themselves than others, which is why it's wise to quarantine for at least 4 weeks, like myself and tolak have said. African dwarf frogs, though not a fish, need to be quarantined for at least 3 months if being added to a tank that already has ADFs because of a disease they may have.

In addition to looking for problems, the quarantine period allows the fish to get accustomed to your routines, and de-stress, like thekoimaiden said. For some fish this takes longer than others. For my African knife, it took 3 months before it would even let me see it. I honestly had no idea if it was eating or not during that time. Other fish like barbs and danios, usually take to a tank immediately.

As I mentioned before, many wild fish must be converted to staple foods, which takes time as effort, which is best done in a quarantine tank. It is not good to put a fish in the show tank before you are sure that it is eating well.

There are a lot of things to consider when quarantining, many of which you will learn through experience. There are meds that are good to have on hand, so that you can treat diseases that may show. Gram positive and gram negative antibiotics, anti fungal meds, and an anti parasite med. Bacterial, fungal and parasitic infections are what you are most likely to see. They are things to have on hand in general. But more importantly than all that, is a cycled quarantine tank. I keep coming back to that because it really is the most important aspect.


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