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Old 05-30-2013, 10:38 PM   #1 
xxRho
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Question What Water with What Tank Mates?

Sorry if this has been covered already; my internet is being painfully slow at present and an opportunity to purchase Endler's has come my way

Okay so I am in love with the Endler's Guppy (Poecilia wingei) and I have found someone that can sell them to me. Eventually I want to have a peaceful Betta splendens share a space with them but I also have wondered about Neon Tetras long before I knew that Endler's existed, as tank mates.

I have heard success with guppies, neons, endler's, and other fish but its not the fish temperament that primarily concerns me about mixing any of the above (don't worry I'd never put endler's with guppies just because I'd want to keep them pure since they are rare), it is the actual water parameters and such.

Like if any body keeps any of the above species together (with or without Betta splendens) what do you aim to keep the hardness, ph, temperature, diet, etc?

I have seen a thread about what people keep with their betta fish but I was wondering can I know specifics like:
- species
- numbers
- water parameters, temperature, etc
- feeding routine
- tank dimensions/volume
- other e.g. planted, ornaments, gravel/substrate, etc

I am always open to suggestion and would prefer being corrected before a serious mistake can be made
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:06 PM   #2 
Bombalurina
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If you want to be pedantic (I usually do), Endlers are not guppies. Different taxonomy. They are just Endler's Livebearers, not Endler's Guppy. ;) People used to think they were closely related, but closer examination proved that they were not. They are still related closely enough to interbreed, of course. Pedantry over. :p

Endlers, being livebearers, enjoy harder, more alkaline water. Tetras, being tetras, enjoy softer, more acidic water. Bettas enjoy similar water to tetras.

That being said, I keep Endlers with my bettas and ember tetras. However, my Endlers have been bred locally over multiple generations (15 or so), gradually softening the water help them adapt. The best way to ensure that all water parameters are met is to keep a neutral pH with moderate water, at around 8dh. However, I would not do it with Endlers that have not been bred in such a manner. Wherever possible, get the water as close to the natural conditions of your fish as you can. When in doubt, check the seriouslyfish database, as they have detailed information on every species you could ever want. :)

So, with my bettas I have or have had:
- Endlers livebearers. As you know, they are very beautiful. I have not had a problem with them being nippy to my betta, as I keep a mixed sex group and my males are all too busy chasing my females. Their native water is warm and very hard, and they are now though to be extinct in the wild, so good on you for wanting to keep the species pure. A mixed gender group will breed like wildfire, but I found that my sorority acted as very firm population control. Despite their peaceful nature, they are not a truly ideal mix for bettas, as they like their water to be 15dh or higher.

- Ember tetras. These guys are tiny, shy and adorable. They do need a planted setup or Amazon biotope to thrive, and must have softer, acidic water. In alkaline or hard water they will be pale and pathetic-looking. For me, they are ideal betta tankmates - non-intrusive, quiet, not nippy, enjoy the same temperature range and water paramters, and will thrive in similar setups.

- Cories. Great betta tankmates for similar reasons - they stay out of the betta's way. Kuhli loaches and BN plecos (for a large enough tank) ditto. :)

- Fundolopanchax gardneri gardneri. They are great with my female bettas, but I can't see them getting along with a male.

What size tank do you have? Do you know your water params? I'd be happy to offer advice for your specific situation. :)
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Old 05-31-2013, 08:49 PM   #3 
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Awesome post, Bomba! I like the tidbit about the Endler's being nonexistent in the wild, I didn't know that!

I've kept guppies with my bettas, my sorority girls are doing a terrible job on population control though. lol The first sorority did a great job with it, so it really depends on your group of ladies.

We also have cories and BN plecos, and they're great in the tank too.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:13 AM   #4 
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@Skyewillow - that's how I found out they existed because their habitat is all most gone so of course the wild population has declined

@Bombalurina - I love your posts (and I haven't even read that many). Taxonomically they are the same genus and there is talk among the science community of declaring Poecilia wingei a subspecies of Poecilia reticulata because of biological definitions of a "species" but either way it is important (at least in my opinion) to keep this wonderful fish (or any other species eg tigers, wolves, dingos) true to their heritage, as a species and subspecies

I was going to buy some Endler's off a person but now that you pointed out it is better to buy from a local breeder I'm going to look into whether they are from local enough origin. Like when you say local do you mean fish that have been bred under the same water supply? (because the person still is within where the water is from, so it should be the same water... I think...)

If I did set up the tank it would probably be a 40-60L when I get another (hopefully soon) and when my baby betta is older so she won't be eaten. Can Endler's be okay in a 20L (by themselves) for now?
I was thinking 3-6 fish?
And with the other species you mentioned should I try and buy them locally too, not off my local pet shop though because there is at least 1 dead fish in every one of their tanks (I don't see why I wouldn't buy local but I like being pedantic too )
Also since you have Endler's how do they travel in your opinion?
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:02 AM   #5 
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Mine travelled ok, but it wasn't really a long journey - about 15 mins on relatively smooth roads.

As far as I'm aware, my fish were originally bred in hard water, then each subsequent generation was bred in slightly softer water. I should say, though, that nothing other than dissection is really going to prove that it's worked - we're just hoping.

Personally I wouldn't want to put Endlers in a 20 litre. They are just so active - mine are all over the place in my 90 litre. Size and bioload wise, they'd be fine, but they just love to swim and I don't feel that 20 litres gives them all the space they need. A 40-60 litre will be much better. :)

As for other, less fussy fish, as long as your source is reputable, I wouldn't worry about making sure it's local. :)
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:21 AM   #6 
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Oh I get it.
hmmm that means my betta fish are in the wrong water?? Because I use tap water and treat it with conditioner and my bettas seem fine (except for one who was sick when I got him because he wouldn't eat and died a week later from dropsy...) O.o
But I think the breeder I got my 3 bettas off (4 if you include the dropsy victim) were raised in slightly hard water because I know that Sydney water is always slightly hard. Should I ask them about the water they breed in?
Now I'm scared I'm hurting my betta fish

Last edited by xxRho; 06-01-2013 at 03:28 AM.
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