Betta Fish Care  
Go Back   Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care > Betta Fish Diseases and Emergencies
Check out the eBook Betta Fish Care Made Easy
betta fish
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-20-2013, 08:38 PM   #391 
Blues Human
New Member
 
Blues Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York
Oh no I'm so sorry. I hope he'll be okay. I wish I knew some way to help, but if you read some other replies to this thread and other threads, some people have given some advice. If it is from the breeders in Asia giving them hormones to make them colorful without giving a single f*** about the well-being of the fish, I hope they rot in hell for what they're doing.
Blues Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2013, 05:55 PM   #392 
AyalaCookiejar
Member
 
AyalaCookiejar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues Human View Post
Oh no I'm so sorry. I hope he'll be okay. I wish I knew some way to help, but if you read some other replies to this thread and other threads, some people have given some advice. If it is from the breeders in Asia giving them hormones to make them colorful without giving a single f*** about the well-being of the fish, I hope they rot in hell for what they're doing.
This disease is no longer the "mystery disease". It has already been identified earlier in the thread as a strain of mycobacteria (often referred to as "fish TB" though fish can't get TB, mycobacteria causes it). When people refer to "fish TB" they're generally talking about the bacteria that causes spinal deformities. This is a different strain.

To reply to an earlier comment you had made, mycobacteria will NOT die if it is left to sit out for a long period of time. Bleach will not kill it (Although I have heard that if you bleach a tank and let it sit out in sunlight, it will work). Medical grade disinfectants are used to kill it, meaning that you won't find anything in walmart strong enough. If you've ever heard of Barbicide, used by cosmetologists to disinfect combs and hair clips and stuff, some people use it to disinfect for mycobacteria. Mycobacteria has a thick, waxy protective coating that makes it incredibly hard to kill.



It is also probably good to know that mycobacteria is characterized as a wasting disease. Fish can live with myco for days, months, years... before it kills them. I personally can't tell you the difference between the strains but if I understand it correctly, fish can get myco and carry it for a long time before they develop this rapid fin disintegration, and rarely do they live 24 hours after that starts.

Now, based on your photos and description, I don't think this is what you were dealing with. First of all, his fins look white on the edges. This causes a very distinct gray color, and in nearly every picture I've seen of it, it looks as if the fish's fins have been burnt, similar to paper when you light a corner of it on fire. Also, he wouldn't have lived with it for two years.

The only thing I can think it may have been (when you described "a condition that was deteriorating his fins from the edges, causing them to turn white at the edges") would be tail biting. That wouldn't cause them to turn white at the edges, but the edges do turn white as they are healing. Tail biting is also very common and the fish will act totally normal but decide that he needs a hair cut and chop off his fins. If that were the case, meds would have just worsened it by irritating him and making him want to bite his fins more.

Hope that helps?
AyalaCookiejar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 09:35 AM   #393 
Blues Human
New Member
 
Blues Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York
@ AyalaCookieJar: thank you so much for all your help and information! I hadn't seen the thread where the disease was positively identified, so I really appreciate you telling me about that. I also REALLY appreciate the information you gave me about how hard it is to kill the disease. Now I know to get a completely new tank and new equipment and decorations if I ever suspect a fish was infected with this. I really had no idea that the mycobacteria (btw: the root myc/o means fungus, so this is a bacteria with fungus-like properties?? that sounds horrible) could survive in such varied and harsh conditions.
Thank you for offering a possible explanation for my Blue's condition, also. Even though it's too late for him, I wanted to know what it was so that if I ever see it in another fish I can make the right choices next time. I was aware that bettas would nip off pieces of other bettas' fins, but I did not know that there was a possibility of them attacking their own. Do you know what I should do if I ever encounter that problem with my new fish? Does stress or boredom cause or contribute to fin biting?
Thank you again for all your help and information. I really appreciate this.
Blues Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 11:24 PM   #394 
AyalaCookiejar
Member
 
AyalaCookiejar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Tail biting is usually caused by stress or heavy finnage. Often it seems that maybe the fins get damaged and after the fish realizes its easier to swim without the extra weight, they continue to give themselves "hair cuts". It's more common in long/heavily finned males and happens in half moons more than other tail types (their fins seem to be the most delicate overall). You can TRY to combat tail biting by rearranging decor, keeping the fish entertained (put the tank by a TV or just spend time with your fish), but usually the best thing to do is remove or baffle the filter outflow. If it throws them around, it's harder for them to swim. Smaller and less heavily decorated tanks might be best for heavy finned tailbiters because they have less water to lug around all that extra luggage in and less stuff in the tank to have to navigate around.

It's worth it to keep in mind that tail biting is NOT fatal, or detrimental if you keep up on water changes. Tail biters are more likely to develop fin rot but they won't develop rot in clean water. It does not affect them. It only affects their looks, for the most part. Medicating will stress them more and might worsen the tail biting but stress coat can always be used in a tail-biting case (not a med, it contains aloe Vera). But if a tail biter refuses to stop tail biting, it is definitely not a huge reason to panic, worry, or otherwise make a huge deal about.

On mycobacteria - that is only what I PERSONALLY understand about the disease. I have tried to understand it to the best of my ability and explain it in simpler terms. So everything I said above is not necessarily 100% accurate and many other forum members are more educated on myco than I am and may be able to answer further questions and/or correct anything I said if necessary. Basement Bettas and CopperMoon come to mind, but a forum search on "mycobacteria" should help you find the actual thread, which has a lot more info. If you are really concerned, one of those forum members may be able to answer your question.

Also the point of the thread is to make sure you are aware and not to scare you to death. Myco is a horrible disease but if you are not a breeder you have little to lose (read Basement Betta's story). Just be aware that you CAN be affected by it if you have open sores on your hands and put them in the water. It's rare but possible so it's a good idea to practice bio-security, but don't let it ruin your fish keeping hobby.

If you have any other questions chances are we have someone who could answer them. :)
AyalaCookiejar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 02:32 PM   #395 
resa
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: louisiana
wish I paid more attention to this sticky. zzz about a month ago I lost my hm male and he looked exactly like the pic on the first page of this thread I bought him from a member in IBC his sister passed without any visual problems though
resa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 03:35 PM   #396 
Bettafeathers
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
I'm pretty sure that I just lost my beautiful blue HM marble boy to this. His first issue was a couple weeks ago and his gills seemed inflammed and he was breathing heavy, so I did a water change. Then the scales on one of his gill plates pineconed. I thought it was maybe trauma but was going on holidays so there was nothing I could do. After holidays I came back and the gills had flattened which I was excited about but his fins had deteriorated and he was pale. Anyways, over the past week his color has come and gone and two nights ago he stopped eating. I realized a chunk of his anal fin was coming off and was a bit fuzzy. He passed away yesterday at some point.

I didn't notice the gray until after he died - it might have developed throughout the day when I was gone or after he died, I'm not sure.

Is it safe to assume this is what I'm dealing with?

Luckly I don't share my siphon that I use in that tank in any of the others so I shouldn't have any cross contamination.

Besides being frustrated that I lost another fish, I'm frustrated because he was in a 10 gallon tank that is planted. I just threw $50 of plants into the tank a couple days ago too. I'm a student going back to school soon and cannot afford to rip the tank down and throw another couple hundred bucks at it to get it up and running again. I really really don't want to toss what is likely well over $100 in plants plus the wood and rocks etc. Do I really have any other choice though? Could I leave it dormant for a ridiculously long time without a fish - will the mycos die off without a host or does it survive indefinitely??

Sorry if these questions seem redundant/obvious. I haven't had a chance to read up on this much.
Bettafeathers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 07:14 PM   #397 
MaryElizabeth
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Boston, MA
I have had 4 betta's die of this strange disease in the past two months. 3 were blue, one was teal.
2 were veil tails
2 were half moon bettas


All were fine at night, and in the morning, they had advanced diseases.
My first betta had ick, but died within 24 hours
the second one showed signs of fin rot and died within three days
the third betta, a blue half moon swam in huge chunks of his fins when I found him in the morning. He turned grey on top, and had white stomach. He died within a week, losing his ability to swim or stay on top of the water.
the 4th betta was my half moon female. I had her one week to the date. I fed her a little worm before bed, and in the morning she was hiding and wouldn't come to me. She...couldn't breath or stay on top of the water. Couldn't eat. light grey on her body with beginning signs of fin rot.

I hope that this information is useful to you in finding out more about the Mysterious Disease since their deaths are so close to each other. I got three fish from Petco and one from Pets Plus. Both stores were very kind and let me return the fish, but said nothing about a mysterious disease.

Maryelizabeth
MaryElizabeth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 07:20 PM   #398 
Sena Hansler
Member
 
Sena Hansler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CANADA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafeathers View Post
I'm pretty sure that I just lost my beautiful blue HM marble boy to this. His first issue was a couple weeks ago and his gills seemed inflammed and he was breathing heavy, so I did a water change. Then the scales on one of his gill plates pineconed. I thought it was maybe trauma but was going on holidays so there was nothing I could do. After holidays I came back and the gills had flattened which I was excited about but his fins had deteriorated and he was pale. Anyways, over the past week his color has come and gone and two nights ago he stopped eating. I realized a chunk of his anal fin was coming off and was a bit fuzzy. He passed away yesterday at some point.

I didn't notice the gray until after he died - it might have developed throughout the day when I was gone or after he died, I'm not sure.

Is it safe to assume this is what I'm dealing with?

Luckly I don't share my siphon that I use in that tank in any of the others so I shouldn't have any cross contamination.

Besides being frustrated that I lost another fish, I'm frustrated because he was in a 10 gallon tank that is planted. I just threw $50 of plants into the tank a couple days ago too. I'm a student going back to school soon and cannot afford to rip the tank down and throw another couple hundred bucks at it to get it up and running again. I really really don't want to toss what is likely well over $100 in plants plus the wood and rocks etc. Do I really have any other choice though? Could I leave it dormant for a ridiculously long time without a fish - will the mycos die off without a host or does it survive indefinitely??

Sorry if these questions seem redundant/obvious. I haven't had a chance to read up on this much.
Does not sound like that was it, to be honest. With my fellas, they all died AFTER grey showed. Literally looks like ashes. Greying after death is normal as that is the body breaking down. To be honest it sounds like something was wrong with the water, or depending when you got him (under a month), could have been an underlying problem from the store.

For the plants, use warm tap water, and isolate the plants for 2-4 weeks. I do this before adding, and after a fish dies.
Sena Hansler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 07:43 PM   #399 
Bettafeathers
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Thanks for the reply Sena. I thought I'd post to see what other opinions were as I was unsure myself. I've had him for a few months, so I'm betting something happened with the water (I'm unsure what, but I will test to see if anything was out of whack). The way his fins looked after he died looked like the fish in the op. I just remembered seeing that picture and was wondering. But since the grey didn't show before death (as far as I know) you're probably right. I'll make sure to do a thorough cleaning of everything and give it a few weeks before I get a new fish.

Thanks again :)
Bettafeathers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2013, 09:07 PM   #400 
Sena Hansler
Member
 
Sena Hansler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CANADA
Well some things you won't be able to test for! Anything chemical in the air, landing in the water, for example. Just break down the tank do a full clean, and restart it. Sucks, but not worth having something go wrong with other fish.
Sena Hansler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Signs of boredum? yumekon Betta Fish Care 15 12-01-2011 06:59 PM
Betta not eating, but no visible signs of disease JorgeBurrito Betta Fish Diseases and Emergencies 6 09-05-2010 06:26 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.