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Old 11-19-2009, 04:19 PM   #11 
kelly528
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Originally Posted by angie08 View Post
Hey there.. So i think my betta has inflamed gills too.. .but i'm not sure what to do about it. ..He hasn't been doing the greatest.. I wanted to know what you guys think.. look at my post here.. tell me what you think..

this was my previous post this week:

" Okay, so my betta, Sonic has been acting weird in the last week. all this past week he wasn't eating anything. he might of taken 2 pellets the whole week. He keeps spitting them back out.. and I usually get it out of the tank immediately so it doesn't make the water acidic. I just changed his water as I always do except I added new rocks, that I did wash well before adding it to his tank. He still isn't eating.. just keeping it in his mouth for a few moments then spitting it right back out. Does he have some sort of digestive problems? I also recognized that he's been pale and hasn't been holding his fins completely open. He still swims around and seems happy.. but he needs to eat. He does look pale/loss of his color behind both his gills.. .. I need some help! thanks :] "
-How often do you clean the tank?
-How much water do you change?
-How big is the tank?
-what's the water temperature?
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:37 PM   #12 
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Originally Posted by BurnishedOchre View Post
Okay - here is an update:

I've given the tank a 75% water change, added conditioned and salted water (about a fourth to a third of a teaspoon for a gallon), and have put the carbon filter back in to the system. I took another reading and the ammonia level was at first .25 then .50 on the next testing (I took another test right after the first one after changing the water). Extremely worried, I put in 3 gallon's equivalent of Prime water conditioner (7 drops), as I read on the container that up to 5 times the normal amount can be applied to the tank directly in emergencies.

What I am thinking is going on is that the tank never truly cycled to begin with, something I didn't really understand at the time, and the ammonia levels are spiking since I did not change the water as usual due to my fungal clear medicine directions. I would really prefer the tank to be cycled, so I looked up some info on it on the Tropical Fish forums, and it is said that I should just continue to detoxify the ammonia with Prime and maybe even add some extra starter bacteria (supposedly the Bio filter I received with the tank had some bacteria on it, but maybe it didn't actually have any or didn't have enough to deal with the ammonia.

I have also cut back on his feeding - only three or four pencil-point-sized flakes a day, maybe even less now.

What is really concerning me is that he is still behaving erratically - he will swim around like he normally does, but then just... stop. A little gill movement, but no fin movement at all, no up or down motion. Like he has frozen in time. When he does swim, he often has difficulty keeping his body straight, difficulty swimming downward, and his tail end will sometimes drift upward, so I am thinking that it is a swimbladder problem. He will also drift up to the surface and be on his side for a number of seconds, then go swimming off again. I have to say though that he is not as sluggish as he was before I put in the conditioner when he is active. He will probably stop in place four times every minute. *sighs* I know he is my first fish, and I accept any errors I have made, but still... I really hope he pulls through. :(
First off, the nitrifying bacteria probably died when you took the filter insert out of the water.

Second, any 'bacteria in a bottle' deal is really iffy... to put it this way bacteria cannot survive that long without food or oxygen. Same goes for your 'Bio Filter'.

Third, I don't see how detoxifying ammonia will help anything. Can bacteria consume detoxified ammonia?

Fourth, Flakes are kind of crud IMO. Their ingredients may be dandy, but they are 90% air and swell like sponges in the gut, causing contsipation. Same goes for freeze dried. Rather than soaking it (in which case your betta is getting 90% water instead of 90% air. Whoop-de-doo.), just get some betta pellets. HBH betta bites are cheap, readily available and awesome.

Fast him for a few days then feed him about a quarter of a thawed frozen pea to clear everything else out.
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:12 PM   #13 
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Daphnia is also very good for constipation.
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:42 PM   #14 
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Yeah definitely daphnia (frozen or live, not freeze-dried) if you can get ahold of it. It's also a good food to prevent constipation, since IMO bettas only need peas in an emergency. Peas will do in a pinch, but as DQ has brought up before they are only a miniscule part of a betta's natural diet, therefore don't fare quite as well in the 'preventative maintenance' category.
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:02 PM   #15 
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I see no problems with using freeze dried daphnia. As long as you completely presoak it prior to feeding there won't be a problem. Freeze dried daphnia beats a pea, any day, in my book. :)
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:41 PM   #16 
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im inclined to think its the ammonia as well. also sounds constipated. fast him for a couple days, that usually helps.

for the ammonia, i would always do a water change as soon as its detected. in a 3 gallon tank it will build up much fast than a larger tank, so you always have to do more water changes, best treatment for inflamed gills? FRESH WATER always, let us know if it gets worse, or any new symptoms
I've given him a 75% water change and have more conditioned water on the side if I see any more issues. He's doing better, just very unstable and stopping a lot. And even that is getting better it seems. I'll definitely be heeding the advice about fasting, along with the freeze-dried food and flakes. Thanks a lot!
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:51 PM   #17 
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Originally Posted by kelly528 View Post
First off, the nitrifying bacteria probably died when you took the filter insert out of the water.

Second, any 'bacteria in a bottle' deal is really iffy... to put it this way bacteria cannot survive that long without food or oxygen. Same goes for your 'Bio Filter'.

Third, I don't see how detoxifying ammonia will help anything. Can bacteria consume detoxified ammonia?

Fourth, Flakes are kind of crud IMO. Their ingredients may be dandy, but they are 90% air and swell like sponges in the gut, causing contsipation. Same goes for freeze dried. Rather than soaking it (in which case your betta is getting 90% water instead of 90% air. Whoop-de-doo.), just get some betta pellets. HBH betta bites are cheap, readily available and awesome.

Fast him for a few days then feed him about a quarter of a thawed frozen pea to clear everything else out.
Aw dang - yeah, that probably was the case. Now I realize that I should have kept it in aquarium water and not have let it dry out - dang it!

Yeah, I've heard a lot of controversy about the pre-packaged bacteria - it sounds almost too good to be true...and that sounds very logical about the bio wheel too. Makes perfect sense.

I got the idea of detoxified ammonia still being viable for the bacteria that convert it from this forum page here about a person's high ammonia level: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...t-32249/page4/ It gave me the idea that ammonia can get turned into ammonium, that if your pH is below 7 your waste will be ammonium while above 7 will be ammonia, that most strip tests will test levels of ammonium as ammonia and add it to the final total, that ammonium does not stress the fish, and that the nitrifying bacteria can eat ammonium. What are your thoughts?

I have a container of pellets actually, but I haven't been giving them to Desmoda because he hasn't been able to eat them due to their size...until now I really wasn't sure that the flakes were making him bloat up so much, but it's gotten pretty apparent, obviously! I will be crushing his pellets for him from now on. Now I just have some freeze-dried bloodworms and flakes that will stay in the shadows... that's all right though - I have luck that I will be able to go to the PetSmart a few hours away this weekend so I'll be sure to get some daphnia then, if they have any. :) Thank you for your advice - it is really appreciated!

On the pea thing - I have heard a LOT of controversy on that treatment, but supposedly it works? I think I'll try the daphnia first, though - it seems more conducive to the fish's natural diet.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:53 PM   #18 
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I see no problems with using freeze dried daphnia. As long as you completely presoak it prior to feeding there won't be a problem. Freeze dried daphnia beats a pea, any day, in my book. :)
So you're saying that freeze-dried daphnia don't have the same air (or water after you soak them) percentage that freeze-dried bloodworms do? I'm just curious. :D
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:54 PM   #19 
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Smile Thanks!

Also, thank you all so much about your responses!! They have been factual and great advice. It has all really helped me out and may have saved my betta from an unnecessary end. Thank you for your time!
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:41 PM   #20 
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So you're saying that freeze-dried daphnia don't have the same air (or water after you soak them) percentage that freeze-dried bloodworms do? I'm just curious. :D
I'm not sure what you're asking as far as air/water/percentage but basically dehydrated foods contain zero water so they need to be completley rehydrated before you feed them to your fish. If the food isn't rehydrated before giving it to your fish, they eat the food "dry" and once in their gut it'll expand, presenting a potentially lethal situation for your fish.
What I do with my freeze dried foods is take an amount that looks to be half of what I'd normally feed (if it was live or frozen) and soak it in a shotglass of tank water until it's fully absorbed of water, then I feed it to my fish. HTH
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