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Old 03-23-2014, 11:52 AM   #1 
marblesmama
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Just to be sure..

This might sound silly but I don't want to mess anything up. In the next year I plan on breeding two of my bettas. Can I mate, say a crowntail male and veiltail female, or do they both have the be the same?. Any insight at all on breeding would be appreciated aswell. Although, I've done my research, I've never found the answer to this, unfortunately..
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:34 PM   #2 
Basement Bettas
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If breeding for fun do what you want. Just be prepared for several hundred fry you will need to raise to adult hood. All is fun till you get 50+ jars of males that need water changed every other day. Then your hobby becomes a chore and they sit in bad water and get sick. If you have some friends.. they will take some. But what about the rest?? Mixed tail types probably will not be of interest to a local shop. If you are going to breed pet type bettas.. do you best to create fish that will have some value so their lives mean something.

I rehome hundreds of bettas every year... but am prepared to clove oil or feed to an Oscar when I don't have room for them that don't suit my purpose. You need a plan for the offspring.
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:15 PM   #3 
valen1014
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If breeding for fun do what you want. Just be prepared for several hundred fry you will need to raise to adult hood. All is fun till you get 50+ jars of males that need water changed every other day. Then your hobby becomes a chore and they sit in bad water and get sick. If you have some friends.. they will take some. But what about the rest?? Mixed tail types probably will not be of interest to a local shop. If you are going to breed pet type bettas.. do you best to create fish that will have some value so their lives mean something.

I rehome hundreds of bettas every year... but am prepared to clove oil or feed to an Oscar when I don't have room for them that don't suit my purpose. You need a plan for the offspring.
I don't mean to offend anyone but I was just wondering why not reduce the amount of breeding or stop the spawning earlier so that you don't get as many fry but can still be selective over those? I just feel that it's a horrible thing to bring living creatures into this world just to kill them because they don't meet your standards of beauty. Deformities that affect quality of life I understand, but for a vague "not suiting my purpose" sounds kind of... Selfish I guess. Many of my frys are missing ventrals and i know that means i will have a hard time getting rid of them and will probably be stressed out when it's time to start separating them, but I feel responsible for their existence and, while it would be easier for me to clove-oil them, I don't do it because it seems unethical to me. I know that people often become desensitized to those things over time, so I'm sure others don't see it the same way.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:54 PM   #4 
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In my opinion, it's better to cull the bettas you don't like than to give them to a petstore, the life is ended quickly and with little to no pain rather than suffering in a cup or a tiny, cold bowl. And unless you keep them all, you will have a hard time finding homes for the bad ones. Personally, if I had a guppy fry with any missing fins, I'd cull. They will taint lines and might run into problems later in life.

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Old 03-29-2014, 08:47 AM   #5 
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In my opinion, it's better to cull the bettas you don't like than to give them to a petstore, the life is ended quickly and with little to no pain rather than suffering in a cup or a tiny, cold bowl. And unless you keep them all, you will have a hard time finding homes for the bad ones. Personally, if I had a guppy fry with any missing fins, I'd cull. They will taint lines and might run into problems later in life.
I know that a lot of bettas do end up dying in petstores but there are so many people who do go out and buy bettas, for themselves or their kids, and take great care of them and give them a good homes. They even come to this forum because they actually care. There's also a good number of people who actively go and rescue some of the dying bettas from pet stores. Even if the betta does die shortly after, they are happy to have given them proper care at least in their last few days. So I guess it's a matter of whether you are willing to give them a fighting chance or not. Yes, there's a risk that they might die slowly (unless you give them to my local petsmart which actually does a really good job taking care of the bettas XD), but there's also a good chance that they'll find good homes. I'd personally rather endure the tiny cup and have a chance to be adopted, than just give up on life

I totally understand not breeding deformed fish, it's not good for the fish or the breeder! But, I don't know... missing ventrals aren't going to stop them from living normally. Heck I have a little guy missing his whole caudal and so far he's doing just fine. It's possible that he might have issues later on, and I could've culled him at the very beginning thinking he wouldn't have made it, but he did make it and, even if I have to cull him later on, I at least gave him a little more time to live. But I can see how with guppies, since they breed a lot and they are kept together, it's much harder to have to keep the deformed ones unless you keep them separate.

Maybe I'm just adding too much emotion to fish though
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:13 AM   #6 
TheSplishSplashery
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In the grand scheme of things, backyard dog breeders do the same thing and millions of pets are put to sleep each year because of irresponsible breeding. In the grand scheme of things, I think that culling fish is far less cruel than what backyard dog breeders do just to make money since dogs are far more complex animals and likely suffer a great deal more before they are put to sleep than a fish would.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:42 PM   #7 
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In the grand scheme of things, I think that culling fish is far less cruel than what backyard dog breeders do just to make money since dogs are far more complex animals and likely suffer a great deal more before they are put to sleep than a fish would.

Wait a second... *rewind* What exactly makes a dog more complex than a fish? They are both living creatures with emotion and personalities. Biologically they may not be very similar but they eat, sleep, breathe, play, etc. A living being is a living being no matter what their size or ability to show emotion or whatever and has the same feelings as any other, as well as the same right to live.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:23 AM   #8 
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That is why you should breed responsibly. That said it is fun to breed and raise fish. They do not have to be show quality.. shops love colorful fish so the *bad* show fish is often very interesting in a pet shop. A local mom and pop should take better care of them.

Yes fish are living.. and as such you have to make sure no suffering, especially from disease or neglect. But in the grand scheme of things.. it is only just a fish. I enjoy eating the larger ones as I do deer, chicken and beef. Even rabbit. And please don't go off on a tangent. We kill more children in this country daily and think nothing of it. THAT is where the outcry should be, murdering people.. not ending the life of a few fish.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:34 PM   #9 
EachUisge
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That is why you should breed responsibly. That said it is fun to breed and raise fish. They do not have to be show quality.. shops love colorful fish so the *bad* show fish is often very interesting in a pet shop. A local mom and pop should take better care of them.

Yes fish are living.. and as such you have to make sure no suffering, especially from disease or neglect. But in the grand scheme of things.. it is only just a fish. I enjoy eating the larger ones as I do deer, chicken and beef. Even rabbit. And please don't go off on a tangent. We kill more children in this country daily and think nothing of it. THAT is where the outcry should be, murdering people.. not ending the life of a few fish.
Killing them, and anything else for that matter, needlessly is my issue, not killing them in general. As well as your lack of compassion for what you consider a lesser species and your reply has just proven my point. Don't tell me not to go off on a tangent because your opinion is different than mine. I'm done with you.
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:07 PM   #10 
indjo
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Slow down please (everyone). Avoid comments that may offend others.

I'm not not saying killing life we brought to this world is right but breeders face the fact that:
In a gene pool of (average) 1000+, only an average of 30% survive to adult. So breeders will need as many of them to survive to have better chance of producing the preferred quality. Serious breeders can not stop the spawn mid way and only produce a handful. Further attempting to produce certain traits will involve several spawns. In many cases, less than 20 per spawn will fit the goal and only a few will be "perfect" . . . . so what are breeders suppose to do with all those "rejects".

It is only logical to either sell them to hobbyists (limited number) or wholesale to fish/pet shops. Even then there will be "leftovers" which will be culled - either euthanized or used as feeders. It's inevitable. ALL (bigger) breeders do this, whether we approve of it or not. And after a while they get used to it.

That being said, breeders will often ask hobbyists to breed "responsibly". Breed only if they know what they're going to do with the potential fry - keep, give away, sell, or euthanize. I am one of those "hobbyist" breeders and give away most of what I produce. But there are times when I produce too poor of a form that no one wants (not even for free) and I must dispose of them by turning them into feeders. . . . whether I like it or not.

Quote:
This might sound silly but I don't want to mess anything up. In the next year I plan on breeding two of my bettas. Can I mate, say a crowntail male and veiltail female, or do they both have the be the same?. Any insight at all on breeding would be appreciated aswell. Although, I've done my research, I've never found the answer to this, unfortunately..
All fin types in the splenden complex can be crossed bred. CT crossed to any type will produce messy fins - uneven web reduction. CT is more "attractive" if their fins can open wide. Thus it is unadvised to cross it to a VT as that will make VT with uneven web reduction which will look like shattered fins when they swim. This cross is advised IF you are attempting to lengthen CT fins. But it will take you many spawns to eventually achieve it.
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