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Old 03-07-2011, 08:47 PM   #21 
k2ofcu
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Originally Posted by vaygirl View Post
Oh yeah, I forgot about carbon. I took mine out a long time ago (I use rings and a fiber pad thingie). I think you can leave the carbon in, being that you're still cycling. It won't remove the tea right away. I used to have tannins in my water from driftwood and I had yellow water for a good long time, probably a year even with carbon.
All good information- thanks so much! Just trying to do the right thing for the lil' guy!

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Originally Posted by vaygirl View Post
I'm glad he's feeling better. And keep him off the food for tomorrow as well. He doesn't know any better. :) They do beg. I fast mine once a week and they always look at me like 'WAIT!!!!!!!!! Where are you going!?". Even my dwarf puffer looks insulted.
He IS INDIGNANT (or so it seems) about the food- is wagging at me as if I can't see him, making extra efforts to be noticed (NOT the same agitated zooming of yesterday!) lol

Do want to follow OldFishLady's recommendations on the Epson salts + tea, but am currently a bit challenged in trying to figure out how to get the hospital container to stay suspended in the heated tank (so I started another thread on that!)
Thanks again!
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:50 PM   #22 
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Originally Posted by maycausedeath View Post
I'm glad your fish is feeling better!

About your carbon filter, I've heard that if it's old and no longer working (I'm assuming it's activated carbon v: ) it can cause high nitrate/ite readings cause gunk builds up on it. I'm not sure about ammonia, but it's something that might be causing it.
Thanks so much for the kind thoughts and insights!
I don't think that the activated carbon filter that I do have (Whisper 10i cartridge) would be considered old, as I just set up the tank last month. Have yet to get ANY nitrite/nitrate readings, but seemingly high ammonia readings (but believe that this might actually be ammonium rather than ammonia).

Do feel kinda wistful/awkward that my tank hasn't cycled yet - gosh, I've been trying! lol.
Then again, little Fred seems happy as a clam!
Thanks again!
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:15 PM   #23 
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Oh, your carbon definitely isn't old! Don't get discouraged with cycling, I've heard the fish in cycle takes the longest but I'm sure you'll get it c:
Best of luck with your ammonia mystery!
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:22 PM   #24 
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Oh, your carbon definitely isn't old! Don't get discouraged with cycling, I've heard the fish in cycle takes the longest but I'm sure you'll get it c:
Best of luck with your ammonia mystery!
Thanks again!
Would have done a fishless cycle but Fred was a mercy buy (cup water was so fetid/opaque/flocculent that I didn't really know what his color was (barely his appearance!) when I brought him into the family!)

Will let everyone know how the 'ammonia mystery' plays out!
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:24 PM   #25 
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Not sure how to secure the container. Unless you have a giant chip clip? Don't know if that would work.

I'm off to bed. Night to Fred and yourself!
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:34 PM   #26 
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Not sure how to secure the container. Unless you have a giant chip clip? Don't know if that would work.

I'm off to bed. Night to Fred and yourself!
ROFL! I *also*thought of the chip clip!
Great minds think alike!

Sweet pleasant dreams for you and yours! - and thanks again!
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:14 PM   #27 
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UPDATE:
Fred seemed fine today, but I noticed (this evening)that he was hanging behind the pump (turns out that the narrow space was helping him stay vertical without listing).

Just because.....he just didn't look right (and was a bit bloated- more so than in the morning, anyway)-and kept listing sideways and just seemed to be putting too much effort in staying vertical-

I figured out a hospital tank that I could suspend in the tank, and put him in the prepared 1tsp/gallon Epsom salt + decaf organic green tea solution. (with the 2tsp/gallon & tea solution ready to go, too).

I rigged up the hospital tank so that it was longer than it was high, and put his leaf hammock in it (in the corner, so he'd have a place to rest). After a bit of orienting, he's figured out that the leaf and the side of the container offer a good resting spot.

Ok- here's the hospital tank: it rests nicely on the inside lips, and only requires a plastic hair clip to keep it in the corner of the heated tank.
http://www.amazon.com/Fit-Fresh-Lunc...9647063&sr=8-2

Obviously-- remove the two little containers and the gel freezer pack, using the larger remaining plasticware for the hospital tank.
It also has a little ridge on both ends which can be helpful for support (if the fish needs it)- a little sharper than I'd like, but, combined with the leaf hammock*, provide a stable place to rest.

(* for reference:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Betta-...9647673&sr=8-1
)

Hoping he gets better : /

Last edited by k2ofcu; 03-08-2011 at 11:15 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:22 PM   #28 
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UPDATE: Fred is on his third day of treatment:
Day 1) 1tsp/gal Epsom salts + decaf green tea in hospital tank (suspended in heated main tank)
Day 2) Repeat (100% change with same water(clean) as above)
Day 3) 2tsp/gal Epsom salts + decaf green tea in hospital tank (suspended in heated main tank)
Also took this as an opportunity to do a 50% water change on his original tank

He is no longer listing, and was honestly so improved on the first day of treatment that I was very tempted to put him back into the main tank!
However, I remember what galvanized me to put him into the hospital tank and start the regiment- that has helped me to 'stay the course':
While I thought he had improved from his initial episode (and was just fasting him), he later became so unbalanced that, at one point, he was horizontal to the gravel underneath the flat bottom of the Whisper 10i filter. I don't know if there were vents there (having him being sucked against it?) but no matter- I knew that this was no location or position for a healthy betta at rest (so hospital tank & regiment began!)

So- the regiment commenced!

OldFishLady was SO correct in her advice in preparing solutions- things are so much easier when you just prepare the solutions in gallon jugs and do the 100% water changes (quart at a time) from these prepared jugs. REALLY has made things easier, which means that it's easier to stay the course and stay on treatment (all to the good of the betta and the stress level of the caretaker!)

I am just so appreciative to one and all of this forum - the regiment offered by OldFishLady (while she's had to repeat it a lot! -from examination of other forum entries! ha!) REALLY does work!- and the support & insights of vaygirl and everyone else has really been touching!

Another three things that have helped me to 'stay the course' (keep with the regiment even though he's clearly better):
1) I've added an airstone (attached to a gang valve & pump so that I can regulate the flow) set at a very slow flow rate to provide aeration without turbulence.
2) I've added his betta hammock in the hospital tank- and he DOES use it to rest upon.
3) While I have an incandescent desk light (with shade) on the table where the tank is (behind the tank, so the light filters into the tank through the paper backdrop), I'm turning off the top fluorescent light. He's not sitting in the dark, but it's a more restful environment than the flurescent above would provide.

As silly as it sounds- these little creature comforts make ME feel better about keeping him sequestered in the hospital tank. It's also longer than it is tall, so he does have some 'swimmin' space' rather than just forlorn hovering in space in a more vertical tank.

Here are three pics:
(note- I do have the top covered so as to provide humidity/prevent a jump out, but removed it for clarity in the pictures):

The first is of the the tank entire (overview) with the host tank filter & host tank heater at top of picture, hospital tank at left (foreground) and betta log (floating in host tank).
Name:  Hospital Tank Setup Overview March 2011.jpg
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The second is a detail of the hospital tank, with an air stone & a betta hammock (so the patient can recline in comfort- and HE DOES! )
Name:  Hospital Tank Setup Detail March 2011.jpg
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The third is a side view of the entire setup:
Name:  Hospital Tank Setup Side View March 2011.jpg
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Size:  77.8 KB
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:13 AM   #29 
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oodiment: generally if I'm putting a betta in cup into a tank that will be cycling I just dump their "dirty" water in. Usually its dirty because it already has bacteria.

Try taking the black bio-media out and letting it _just_ get dry then put it back in. No sunlight, no scents, low heat.

Ive always put bacteria in manually.
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