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Old 08-07-2011, 01:09 PM   #11 
masshiimarro
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Well in regards to getting help whenever needed: thats what this forum is for. People here rely on personal experiences and will tell u what works and what doesnt.
Im at loss as to what is going on with ur fish throwing up and such. I suggest messaging oldfishlady in regards with that. She has much more experience than me in regards to illnesses so she would know better than me as tk what u should do. Sorry i cant help much..
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:17 PM   #12 
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And no, the 50 % waterchange wouldnt shock ur fish if u do it properly. As usual, acclimate ur fish to the new water. U dont have to siphon everytime. Every other time u change water, siphon
But he may be having a parasite issues if hes pooping white stringy poop. Usually i would say cure with either anti parasitical pellets or api general cure, but with all ur other issues going on i would highly suggest doing more reasearch before medicating. Its better to figure things out before trying to medicate, so u arent medicating for the wrong thing, which loses u time and money for treatment.
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:51 PM   #13 
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Thank you, I will definitely PM oldfishlady. Where can I find her address? I will try looking in the stickies somewhere. Also I called Petsmart saying I think there might be an internal parasite and he said the only thing they have to treat that with is a Jungle something and it is food with meds in them. This is a problem since my fish is not eating right now. He actually waited till a pellet sunk on the floor beside him and he ate it and then just spit it out again and never ended up eating it. I really don't think he feels good. Also, he does look like he's clamping his fins today. :( Only good thing is that he is able to move better than yesterday. I still fear if he doesn't get the right treatment that he won't make it. Anyway, I'll see what oldfishlady has to say.

Also, about the water changes, I don't take my fish out when I do them. They stay in the tank and I siphon out the water and then get the new water to the right temp and reverse the siphon to drain the fresh water in. Before filling the new water though, I make sure to put the dechlorinator etc. in and then fill so I'm not just dumping tap water straight on them. It has always worked well and they don't seem to mind the process. The first couple of times I siphoned, they would dart away and hide but now I can't get them out of my way. They come right up to the siphon and nose around. I'm always afraid to suck a tetra up. lol

Anyway, I will def. update about what unfolds. I will do it on this thread.

Hope we have a happy ending.
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:01 PM   #14 
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hmm you could find her usually in the diseases section where she would reply people. but anyways, heres the link to her page: http://www.bettafish.com/member.php?u=17234

usually i cup my fish when i change water. it just makes siphoning easier and without the stress of making sure your fish isnt accidentally siphoned DX
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:56 PM   #15 
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Welcome to the forum and sorry you are having so much trouble......

It can be so frustrating when you get multitude of different information from so many people on the same subject......all well meaning......

In 10gal filtered, unplanted, mixed species, without an established nitrogen cycle-one little thing goes wrong and the cure snowballs.....it happens to all of us at one point or another....so you are not alone.....

With all the chemicals added-that has crashed what little beneficial bacteria you had, compromised the fish immune response and stressed not just the fish but..... you......

First-get the Betta in a small QT container-if you bought him in one of those little temporary display cups...that is perfect to use for QT....but anything small that can be covered will work.....
Depending on the room temp-you may need to float the QT in the heated tank or not....the goal temp is 75-76F....

It is important to QT the Betta from the Neon Tetra-because the Neons will not tolerate the treatment.....Neons are sensitive to high dose of salt and a lot of different medications as well....

Premix some treatment water in a 1gal jug of dechlorinated water (only use one type of dechlorinator) Add-3tsp/gal aquarium salt to dissolve and tannins-either IAL (Indian almond leaf) or Oak leaf (naturally dried and fallen from the tree Oak leaf-Dose-10-12/gallon crushed) let this premixed treatment water steep to release tannins and salt dissolve for about 30min-1hr...use this water for the 100% daily water changes on the Betta in the QT container for 10 days

To start the treatment on the Betta-pour half the water out of QT with the Betta-top off with the premixed like temp treatment water-you need to do this every 30min for 2 hours and start the 100% tomorrow-that will count as day one of treatment....the Betta needs to stay in this QT container in this water during the 10 days of treatment....Be sure to check the water temp in the premixed 1gal jug of treatment water and try to keep the temp between the QT Betta water and premixed treatment water within a couple of degrees by checking it with a thermometer.......its doesn't have to be exact...just close....since he is compromised already-you need to limit stress

If you need to float the QT container in the heated tank to maintain temp-be sure and attach it to the side so it doesn't sink or get knocked around by the filter

Now to the 10gal and the Neons-start making 50% water change with deep vacuum...remove everything (decorations) in the tank...if you have another container to put the Neons in...1-2gal and that you can add an airstone...all the better...but if not.......

Make the deep vacuum and 50% water changes daily for the next 3 days

Dose the dechlorinator for the full volume of the tank-only use one dechlorinator...the only additives you need to use for the tank is....... One dechlorinator that covers chlorine and chloramine-be sure you dose the right amount for the chloramine...some products direct that you use double-check the label....

Filter-dump the water and rinse everything and add the carbon back if it has only been used for less than 2 weeks...if not-use fresh carbon...generally you don't need carbon...but in your case I think it will help remove some of the toxic buildup......

Right now-hold all food......

You need to start the nitrogen cycle process over-due to all the chemical and antibiotic used it has upset the balance, stressed the fish and you had a crash......you may still have fish loss.......and I hope you stick this out even if all the fish die....we can help you be successful....don't give up.....it happens......we learn, grow and move on.......

Once we get you over this-I will go over how to safely establish the nitrogen cycle with the fish...but right now let get the fish and tank stable......

Good luck
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:18 PM   #16 
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Thank you so much for your detailed advice. I will get right on it in the morning. I just got in tonight as we were invited to our neighbour's for bbq but the whole time I was thinking of these little guys.

You're right, it is very frustrating to put all this work into things and then have it come crashing down. I hope it doesn't come to losing all the fish although I think one of the other tetras is on its way out :( It looks like whenever they are about to die, they go to the back of the tank behind all the leaves. One of them is doing that tonight.

That said my betta seems to be doing a bit better. He has even been flaring since I came home and although he is not swimming the whole tank, he did dart back and forth a couple of times when I came in. Isn't that a good sign? His fins are also spreading out beautifully again. Do you think if he is on the mend, if I pull him out and do the QT tank bit will I stress him out again? I know yours is good advice, I'm just afraid to scare him or stress him with more changes.

Funny enough, I have two water guages suctioned to my tank which are supposed to show ammonia levels and PH. The ammonia one is showing safe now. I know these ones are not as accurate as the actual test kits but hopefully the tank is coming down from that ammonia spike.

Lastly, I'm wondering where I would get those teas from you mentioned? Are they available at health food stores or would the pet store even carry them?

Thank you for the encouragement. I am sure I am not the first or last person to experience things like this, but I never knew it would be this complicated having a successful fish tank. Hopefully the experience I gain from this will help with the bigger aquarium I want down the road. Until then though, baby steps. It's wonderful knowing there are great people here for support in the meantime!

I will update tomorrow as I progress.

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Old 08-10-2011, 02:36 PM   #17 
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Hello all,

It has been a busy couple of days. I just wanted to update on how things have been going with my messed up tank.

So far, the three fish (2 neon tetras and betta) are still alive although one of the tetras just barely. He has lost pretty much all colour and is breathing very rapidly as he has been for the last several days. The other tetra is a bit better off than the first, but not by much. Last night, I noticed what appears to be that gold dust look on the tetras and one of them had a couple of white flake like spots on its fins. Although Velvet is supposed to be uncommon in freshwater tanks, could this be it? To date, the betta does not have any shiny gold on him anywhere. The other thing I was thinking was neon tetra disease just by the way the colour has almost gone out of the one neon.

The last couple of days, the betta has been doing better in terms of swimming around. It doesn't spend the whole day at the bottom of the tank anymore and it doesn't seem to be gilling a lot like before either. He has been more active and chases the tetras like before but he has taken to burrowing in the gravel which he never used to do. What's up with that? I couldn't find him for a good 15 minutes and searched everywhere and he finally came out from under my clam shell bubbler. I think there's a hollow underneath and he is squeezing down through the tubing and under the decoration. Why is he hiding like this? I also saw him trying to burrow his nose into the gravel behind the same decoration. Is this bad? I have read that it is normal for bettas to hide out but mine never used to do that before these last couple of days. Oh, and I once also saw him up between the tiny space between the filter and the tank wall face up, tail down. He just hangs there not moving until you disturb him and he comes out and starts swimming around.

I finally went and bought a master test kit yesterday b/c I didn't want to keep relying on the pet store to test my water and as of last night, the parameters were as follows:

Ammonia - 0 (maybe 0.10 since the colour was slightly darker yellow than the chart for 0 amount, but nowhere near as lime green as the 0,25 marker)

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 0

PH - this test kit shows 6.8-7.0 where my other one that hangs in the tank was really pale showing around 6-6.2. I will take the master kit to be more accurate

Out of curiosity, I tested my tap water (untreated) for ammonia too and the reading was 0.25-0.5 ppm

Considering how bad my tank was smelling of sulfur or sewer smell, I was surprised to find the ammonia barely there as opposed to a few days ago when it was between 1-2ppm! Mind you, I had done a 30%WC yesterday afternoon so I should test the water again today.

In light of all of the above, I decided to take a bot of a different course of action that OFL first set out.

I have QT'd the tetras in a small critter keeper I have and hung it in the big tank to maintain temperature. Like I said one probably won't make it through today and the other not longer after that. My goal at this point is to keep them away from the betta. I left the betta in the tank and added about 2 teaspoons of aquarium salt to help ease the breathing etc. I was unable to locate the tannins OFL mentioned. Pet store didn't have anything like that and with four kids at home, I couldn't venture here or there to get some. I also didn't stress about it because the betta seemed so much better than before.

Those are all the latest updates. My question now is, what course of action should I take?

1.) Would it help medicating the tetras?
2.) How about the big tank? If there is Neon Tetra Disease or Velvet floating around, do I not need to get it out of the tank? I know there is something not 100% right with the betta as it is also doing the odd things I mentioned above.
3.) Do I ride it out and hope for the best?
4.)Since my water doesn't look too bad, I really want to avoid tearing down the tank and starting over if I don't have to!

Thanks again for any advice you have to offer!!
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