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Old 08-12-2011, 06:06 PM   #21 
SVC
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One thing I forgot to mention was that I had used Aquarium salt in my tank on a few occasions, and most recently this past weekend when the fish were dying and having breathing problems. My tank is 10 gallons and I first put in about one level teaspoon of Aq salt. I know the usual dose is about one teaspoon/gallon, but since I have tetras that are sensitive to salt, I only put in 1 tsp. total. After a couple of days, I did a water change and added in a little more. I know salt does not evaporate out so I only added in a little extra with my water change. I don't normally add salt with every water change but since there was illness, I did replenish this time. Not sure if it has any effect on the falling/rising business though.

I think my tap water's pH differs slightly each day, but then I also have a hard time reading the shading variations. They are after all just a colour chip and are never 100% the same as the actual samples. I think I need time to get used to reading them. The colours are so darned close to each other in some cases that I find myself second guessing and put it as a range between the two. Not very accurate I know. It is not a huge gap though. Like the low pH test is most definitely blue which is 7.6 so I do a High range one too to make sure it isn't even higher and that one comes out somewhere between 7.6 and 8.0 but looks nothing like 7.8 which is orangey. So I call it 7.6 -8.0 see my confusion? Anyway, this morning's reading of just tap was 8.0 and this afternoon it was between 7.8-8.0 so not a huge deal. What is worrying me is that my tap water seems to have about .25ppm of ammonia and I understand tap water shouldn't have any. LFS didn't see much with his test, maybe just a trace. It seems the API liquid tests show higher values than the strips do.

Hopefully it will make more sense to you tomorrow. :)
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:09 PM   #22 
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We have some poop!

Ok, so this morning as I looked to see if the petta had pooped, there was only a few specs of tiny white stuff and one small fuzzy thing. When I was changing the water in betta's QTank, I noticed more of these fuzzy white things. I will include a picture. Not sure how good it will come out, but up close, it looks like there is a tiny black speck surrounded by this fuzzy stuff. Any ideas as to what this means? I know the normal types of poop I have found on the gravel are more like reddish brown mounds.

Sorry for the poop picutres, but if I can figure out what is bothering this little guy, I can hopefully treat it accordingly. Btw, it's the stuff on top of the green leaf hammock.

Thanks!
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:46 PM   #23 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVC View Post
One thing I forgot to mention was that I had used Aquarium salt in my tank on a few occasions, and most recently this past weekend when the fish were dying and having breathing problems. My tank is 10 gallons and I first put in about one level teaspoon of Aq salt. I know the usual dose is about one teaspoon/gallon, but since I have tetras that are sensitive to salt, I only put in 1 tsp. total. After a couple of days, I did a water change and added in a little more. I know salt does not evaporate out so I only added in a little extra with my water change. I don't normally add salt with every water change but since there was illness, I did replenish this time. Not sure if it has any effect on the falling/rising business though.
It depends on the chemical composition of the salt


Quote:
Originally Posted by SVC View Post
I think my tap water's pH differs slightly each day, but then I also have a hard time reading the shading variations. They are after all just a colour chip and are never 100% the same as the actual samples. I think I need time to get used to reading them. The colours are so darned close to each other in some cases that I find myself second guessing and put it as a range between the two. Not very accurate I know. It is not a huge gap though. Like the low pH test is most definitely blue which is 7.6 so I do a High range one too to make sure it isn't even higher and that one comes out somewhere between 7.6 and 8.0 but looks nothing like 7.8 which is orangey. So I call it 7.6 -8.0 see my confusion? Anyway, this morning's reading of just tap was 8.0 and this afternoon it was between 7.8-8.0 so not a huge deal. What is worrying me is that my tap water seems to have about .25ppm of ammonia and I understand tap water shouldn't have any. LFS didn't see much with his test, maybe just a trace. It seems the API liquid tests show higher values than the strips do.

Hopefully it will make more sense to you tomorrow. :)
A range of 7.6-8.0 is a huge gap for fish, remember the scale is logarithmic, a pH of 8 is 10x more basic than pH of 7. If your tap has wildly fluctuating pH then this just brings me closer to believing that the KH of your water is fairly low. Ammonia in tap water is not uncommon nowadays, this is because when the water company uses chlorine to sanitize the water, it is not stable enough and evaporates away, so they use a more stable version, Chloramine. If you live far enough away from the water plant, the chlorine part would have dissociated and evaporated, leaving only ammonia. You are not the first case on this forum to have ammonia in your taps.

We recommend using SeaChem PRIME because it removes chlorine and detoxifies ammonia, and can also be used as an emergency ammonia spike fix.


EDIT: Going to go offline for 3ish hours

Last edited by bahamut285; 08-12-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:50 PM   #24 
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SVC, I'm a tad concerned about parasites but I haven't seen enough to be sure. Y'see, one thing about bettas and poo is sometimes they swim around and it stirs up the water, causing the ball of poo to dissolve and look like that stuff in your pic. Since I'm not 100% if that is what is happening, I would say continue to watch him for poos and look to see if any really big whitish things come from him. Usually parasites are longish white stringy things. Is PTG still relatively active?
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:49 AM   #25 
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Yes, parasites are my concern too. So far there has been nothing long and stringy. I have been watching him frequently the last few days and in the QT it is much easier to see poops if any. I think there is definitely something going on, but can't pinpoint what. I think I mentioned, I am treating the tetras with Rid Ich in hopes of recovering them. If they do respond being at death's door the way they are, then there must be something that got them sick. Of course, it could have been the wonky fluctuations in the tank that stressed them and made them vulnerable to stuff lurking in the water so it's a wait and see game.

Right now, PTG is pretty active, as much as he can be in that small container. When he was really sickly back in the 10 gallon, he was literally sitting on the gravel all day in one position barely moving so compared to that, he is pretty active now. He'll come and go and sometimes get antsy and flare so the behaviour is not as concerning. His appetite seems to be back too, now if we could just get the bowels moving more...

If it turns out to be a parasite, my guess is that a food containing meds is the most effective rather than something to treat the water. Hopefully he won't reject it if need be. Btw, I don't think the poop was like that because he swam too much and disturbed it. When it is normal mound poop, it sits in one piece on the gravel no matter how much they swim around. This stuff was very light and fuzzy looking and probably came out like that. The tetras poops are normal so far and sinking to the ground. I'm still hoping PTG will poop that pea out or its epsom salts for him. I better look up the method of administering that in advance!

Well, have a great night and don't stay up too late!

Last edited by SVC; 08-13-2011 at 12:51 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:04 AM   #26 
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Epsom salts are 1-3 tsps per gallon, depending on the severity. I would start with 1 tsp and predissolve the salt in dechlorinated water first. That poo looks weird, almost like . . . fishy diarrhea. o.O Hopefully he will have done something during the night.

If it is parasites, the best way to treat them is by feeding Jungle Labs Anti-Parasite Medicated pellets. They're a bit on the bigger side and taste kinda lousy so you may need to soak them in garlic to get him to eat them.

Haha, I'll try not to stay up too late. G'night.
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:13 AM   #27 
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Hey there Sakura, hope you're well this morning.

Thanks for the recipe for the epsom salt, hopefully I won't need to do it. I came down today to find a large-ish poop! The good thing is that there was a large piece of brown poop surrounded by some of that lighter stuff although this time it wasn't as fuzzy. Maybe it was the pea? In your experience, when you've given a pea, has it come out solid and green looking or kind of fluffy and lighter colour? Anyway, hopefully his #2 will get back to normal. I'll show the picture to my pet store guy today and see if he recommends the medicated food. I might get some to have on hand as it looks like fish get all these kinds of things pretty often. At least he looks a bit happier today. His fins are more open too. Should I feed him today, or give him a break?

Btw, yesterday at the pet store my lfs guy suggested putting some danios in the tank to keep the biological production up. Only worry I have is that if there is something pathogenic in the tank, they'll get sick and I'll have to treat the tank again meaning more meds. On the other hand, I don't want to go into another cycle again either b/c of having no one living in the tank.

Ok, got to go and do my last water test for bahamut. Will post the results in a bit!
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Old 08-13-2011, 12:54 PM   #28 
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Water Testing Complete!

Ok Bahamut, here you go - loads of water testing done. I went above and aside from just the test bucket, I tested the tank too and I also tested the regular tap water (untreated) for pH and ammonia levels. Results below: All testing done with API Master Test Kit.

Test Bucket (w/Prime) 1:30pm 6:30pm 12:30am 12:30pm

Low Range pH .............7.6........ 7.6....... 7.6........ 7.6
High Range pH .............8.0........ 7.8....... 7.8........ 8.0
Ammonia .................... 0.25....... 0.25..... 0.25...... 0-0.25
Nitrite ......................... 0........... 0......... 0.......... 0
Nitrate ........................ 0........... 0......... 0........... 0


Tank Water (Prime+Salt) 1:30pm 6:30pm 12:30am 12:30pm

Low Range pH ..................7.0...... missed.... 7.2........ 7.0
High Range pH..................n/a.......... "....... n/a........ n/a
Ammonia .........................0 ish*....... ".... ~0.25....... 0 ish*
Nitrite ..............................0............. "......... 0......... 0
Nitrate............................. 0............. "......... 0......... 0


Tap Water (untreated) 1:30pm 6:30pm 12:30am 12:30pm

High Range pH ..............8.0...... 7.8-8.0.... 8.0....... 8.0
Ammonia .....................0.25..... 0.25........ 0.25..... 0.25

__________________________________________________
* - this is where I couldn't distinguish an exact reading. The colour of the test was neither 0 nor 0.25 but somewhere in between. If I had to guess, it was probably closer to 0 - maybe around0.10-0.15

Also, where I had a range, it was also a similar situation where the liquid colour was in between two result shades.

Overall, there wasn't as much variance in the results as I initially expected, or maybe that is due to me getting better at reading the tests. The tank seems to be holding its pH better, although my readings differed from the LFS readings yesterday. His readings showed higher ammonia (o.5) and more acidic on the pH. Then again, two different types of tests were used (LFS used dipping strips).

Hopefully, some of this info will be helpful to you, and thanks so much for taking the time to look it over. :)
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:46 PM   #29 
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Your nitrates in your tank water are 0? Are you sure it's cycled? If it isn't then it's not really a problem to reset your tank XD

I'm more inclined to believe your API kit over the strips, although both my API kit and strips are generally accurate and similar to each other...

Keep doing regular, small water changes, it seems like there may have been something interfering with the pH inside your tank. Also I would not recommend putting salt into an established tank, bacteria are petty. What is the chemical composition of the salt you're using? Is it just NaCl?

...Actually, what is the pH in the QT tank? Just one test should be fine.

I'm still convinced it is *something* in your tank xD
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:52 PM   #30 
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Just popping in to say this: I read that Amquel drops pH.

It's on a betta breeding site
http://www.flippersandfins.net/Betta...e.htm#choosing

Here's the quote:

Tap water conditioner: Kordon's Amquel® and NovAqua® are recommended to remove toxic chloramines, chlorine, ammonia and heavy metals from your tap water. However, before using AmQuel®, be sure that your KH (carbonate hardness) is 4 or higher so that you will not experience a rapid decrease in pH. If your KH is less than 4, use Prime™. Your local fish store will usually test your water for KH for free.

Don't know if this helps you and Bahamut figuring things out but I thought I'd mention it.

*pops back out*
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