Betta Fish Care  
Go Back   Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care > Betta Fish Diseases and Emergencies
Check out the eBook Betta Fish Care Made Easy
betta fish
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-16-2011, 10:48 PM   #1 
Estragon
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Fin Loss?

Hi,

This is my first post, and I have to admit I'm a little worried for my Betta, Plato. To give you some history I bought him about 3 weeks ago, and within a week he contracted Ich, I used the salt + 86 Degree temperature to get rid of the ich (this seemed to work beautifully). I proceeded to lower Plato's water temperature and decrease the amount of salt in his water last week, I've been lowering the temperature really slowly, (we are now down to 82 Degrees). My tank is a 5 gallon tank with silk plants and a smooth ceramic hollow rock (I used the panty hose test on the rock and it performed admirably.) So, the tank has a filter, and a heater.

Now, Last Saturday I noticed that Plato experienced some fin loss overnight (see picture #1). I took a cup of water to my LFS and had them test it, and it came back with ammonia and nitrites. They told me to do a 50 % water change each day, and add in Nutrifin cycle to boost the bio filtration system. I have done those two things, and continued to keep track of Plato's fins. I thought maybe they were looking a little better on Monday (see picture #2), however he got another large gash on Tuesday which I just noticed ( See picture #3). Now his fins are red, so it is extremely difficult (maybe impossible) to tell if they are at all bloody, and I don't really notice a lot of the black edging that is said to accompany fin rot (although he did have some black edging when he got sick with Ich, but it seemed to go away with the ich). In short, I don't know what is causing his fin lose. I have a API Freshwater master test kit coming in the mail tomorrow, so I'll be able to better track his water, and will provide more specific data on that point when I have it. Any ideas at all from the pictures? Is he snagging himself on something? He does love to hang around the heater, he swims up behind it. I've also caught him twice swimming in a circle, where he looked like a dog chasing his own tail. Is he biting his own fins? If so, is there anyway to get him to stop? Other than the fins, he seems healthy, he eats his 3 pellets a day with gusto, and swims around eagerly hiding in the plants, and will even follow my finger around (my finger is obviously outside the tank).

Picture #1: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater
Picture #2: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater
Picture #3: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

Many Thanks for any and all help you can provide.

Worried about poor Plato's fins.
Estragon
Estragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 10:05 AM   #2 
Oldfishlady
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Welcome to the forum...I couldn't see the pic....I don't have facebook.....

Have a few questions...

How big is the tank, how much and how often are the water changes, water temp, filter, live plants, additives used, tank mates, appetite, how long have you had him.....
Oldfishlady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 10:21 AM   #3 
tf1265
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Sounds like he is biting his own tail. There is a sticky at the top of the emergency and diseases forum that discusses various diseases and treatments, take a look at it and see if any of them sound like Plato. Fin biting is included in the list.

The pictures you post don't look too severe. It could just be a water conditions issue that is causing some stress on the fish - especially if you added salt to a tank that wasn't yet cycled. Bettas are hardy and will bounce back from a lot of things, but there may be some effects to begin with. If the pet store told you that you had ammonia and nitrites in your water, they could be damaging the fins. They will usually grow back.

More info about your set up would be really helpful to figure out what's going on. THe things OldFishLady asks would all be good to know, even with pictures it can be extremely difficult to "diagnose" without knowing tank size, filtration, etc.

Also, there are an awful lot of people who don't subscribe to the idea that just dumping additives and chemicals into your tank will help. I don't know much about NutriFin, but I would be very cautious about a pet store (unless it is an independent store that you feel extremely confident in) recommending water additives - never ever forget that the chain stores (petsmart, petco, etc) are in it for the money, not for the pets. And most people tend to think of fish as far more disposable than other pets. Most problems can be handled with water changes, water conditioner, and monitoring the water parameters.
tf1265 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 10:22 AM   #4 
Estragon
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
5 gallon tank

I've been doing 50% water changes each day since I noticed the fin loss.

Temprature: now at 81 Degrees fahrenheit (I've been slowly lowering it after 2 weeks of ich treatment at above 86 degrees with 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt . . . P.S. The ich treatment seemed to work great!)

Filter: Cheap-o Aqua Tech 5-15.

no live plants (4 medium sized silk plants, and one ceramic cave--smooth to the touch of panty hose)

Additives: 1 Tablespoon of aquarium salt, Tetra Bettasafe to condition new water, and Nutrifin Cycle (as suggested by my LFS to boost the bio filtering, when I had my water tested by them and I had higher than 1ppm of Nitrites and Ammonia.)

Tank mates: none, Should I get him one? If so, can you suggest a breed that will get along with a male betta?

Appetite: He eats everything I put in front of him, as per advice from other websites I've been careful not to overfeed. So, I feed him about 2-3 pellets a day (either TetraBetta Foating mini-pellets or Omega One Betta pellets.) I've been thinking of adding a once a week treat like blood worms or shrimp? would this help?

I have had dear old Plato for almost a month now, somewhere between 3 and 4 weeks. In his first week he caught Ich, so I used the Heat + Salt method to cure him of this ailment and it seemed to work. I had my tank at 86 degrees for about 2 weeks, Early last week, I started bringing the temperature back down with a goal of getting it back to 80, I did this very slowly, as you can tell by the fact that I'm only now getting down to 81.

Thank you so much for your help! I've tried uploading the pictures in a different way, can you see them now? The pictures go in order, the first is Saturday Morning, The Second is Monday Evening, and the Last is Tuesday evening.

Many many thanks
Estragon

P.S. I have an API Freshwater master kit coming in the mail today, I can give you water specs then.
Attached Images
   
Estragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 11:01 AM   #5 
Oldfishlady
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
What a lovely fella...nice find....it does look a lot like tail/fin biting......and sadly....that can really be hard to deal with...and often all you can do is prevent a secondary infection....

Since he is otherwise acting his normal self and eating well and the fins don't look that bad.....
What I would do now-start making 50% twice weekly water changes on the filtered 5gal....1-50% water only and 1-50% to include the substrate-only use One dechlorinator and no other additives at this point....once you get your test kit.....post your numbers for both the tank and also test the tap/source water without any dechlorinator to make sure you don't have ammonia, nitrite to start...be sure and shake bang and shake some more on the nitrate #2 reagent bottle...it tends to settle and can give false reading.....once we get the number we will know the nitrogen cycle stage and go from that point.....

In a 5gal-you are limited to shrimp and/or snails as tank mates......not big enough for other fish species along with the Betta...I only ask to rule out other fish as the cause.....

Sometimes-when our domesticated long fin male is placed in a large space and filtration straight out of a small temporary cup.....they can get stressed-those long heavy fins are hard to carry around until they build some muscle mass and acclimate to the space and filter, hopefully he will stop the tail biting with some time.....

Keep us posted.....
Oldfishlady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 01:15 PM   #6 
Estragon
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Water test results

Aquarium Water:

PH: 8.2
Ammonia: 4.0ppm
Nitrite: 5.0ppm
Nitrate: 5.0ppm

Tap Water (no dechlorinater)

Ph: between 8.4-8.8
Ammonia: between 1.0ppm and 2.0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5.0ppm

So, I don't really know what these numbers mean, except that I know that ammonia and nitrite should be below 1 (preferably 0). and That The PH should not be higher than 7.6. I'm not really sure what to say about the PH, I've read other places that trying to adjust ph is basically really really hard to regulate, and can just cause more stress to the fish. I'm also not really happy to see the ammonia already present in my tap water.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
Estragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 01:24 PM   #7 
Myates
Member
 
Myates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Tetra products work on chloramine, but neither binds the ammonia that is created when the chlorine is removed from chloramine. I would suggest using Seachem Prime if you can/able to. Unsure about the PH, luckily never had to worry about it.
I wish you the best and I hope your lil guy gets better.

Or better yet, after re-reading OFL's post... just go with what she said lol. :)
Myates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 01:37 PM   #8 
tf1265
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
I've not had any pH problems as severe as that so I could be way off base, but chlorine is a base, so if it is in high concentration in your tap water it could be why the pH is so high. Definitely get a water conditioner and dechlorinator (just 1 product) and use it on your tap water to see if it makes a difference in the pH. The fact that your aquarium water is lower might mean that the chlorine is evaporating from it (which will happen to any tap water if you let it sit) and thus lowering the pH.
tf1265 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 01:46 PM   #9 
Estragon
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by tf1265 View Post
I've not had any pH problems as severe as that so I could be way off base, but chlorine is a base, so if it is in high concentration in your tap water it could be why the pH is so high. Definitely get a water conditioner and dechlorinator (just 1 product) and use it on your tap water to see if it makes a difference in the pH. The fact that your aquarium water is lower might mean that the chlorine is evaporating from it (which will happen to any tap water if you let it sit) and thus lowering the pH.
Hi,

I have been using a water conditioner and Dechlorinator (Tetra Bettasafe). I sort of think that is why the Ph in my tanke is 8.2 while the water is between 8.4-8.8. I should be more clear about why some of my measurements are using the "between" caveat. I'm a bit colorblind, so different levels of color sometimes look exactly the same to me. My local fish store suggests that I might use a production called "Neutral Regulator" and claims that it will adjust the ph to 7, and remove chlorine, chloramide, and ammonia. Has anyone ever used this product? Or should I just go with Prime (which I will gladly do if it is a better conditioner than I have been using)?

Thanks for all the comments and help guys, I really appreciate it.
Estragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2011, 03:01 PM   #10 
Oldfishlady
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: USA
Since you have ammonia in the source water to start-I would recommend a dechlorinator like Prime-this will change the ammonia to ammonium and fish safe.....be sure and shake, bang and shake some more on the #2 reagent nitrate bottle and re-test the water...be sure to follow the direction to the "T" especially with shaking of the test tube when you add the reagents and read within the given time...and read the results in natural light while using a white piece of paper behind the test tube along with the result/reading card

The high ammonia, nitrite and nitrate is most likely due to the products you added to the tank and hopefully partly new user error too.....by your tank reading you posted..the fish should be near dead or dead.....

How is the Betta acting in the water-behavior wise......

I would go to your water supply web-site and see if the levels you are getting on the source water are acceptable

Don't worry about the pH at this point.....
Oldfishlady is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
At a loss :( rooroober Betta Fish Diseases and Emergencies 6 01-13-2011 03:27 PM
At a loss. fleetfish Betta Fish Diseases and Emergencies 6 10-22-2010 08:23 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.