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Old 09-14-2011, 10:17 PM   #4211 
Aquarianblue
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I just learned a ton about Goldfish. I never really had any interest in them, but it's good to have an idea on how they work, and should be kept! will keep following along, and ask questions now.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:05 PM   #4212 
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Originally Posted by bahamut285 View Post
I understand people may not be able to get large tanks for goldfish because they don't know (I've got two goldfish in an 8 gallon, lol), but I do extra water changes just so their environment can be at least healthy if I can't make it ideal.

However the "green water" and the fact that your fancy is hiding at the bottom in both pictures doesn't appear lively to me...

My 8 gallon has a super expensive, 4 stage filtration system and I *STILL* change around 50% of the water every other day to maintain their health. I've done tests to see how long they can last without me, and the outlook is VERY BAD. The nitrate levels are through the roof by the 3rd day (around 180ppm). Fortunately, I have little or no ammonia due to the many places where bacteria can live in my tank, so they are not at a HUGE risk, but the nitrate will eventually kill them slowly.

Luckily, I'm reasoning with my parents to let me get a 25-30 Gallon in their apartment, on the condition that I would visit more, lol.

I personally think it is fine (for now) for you to keep your fancy in that 10 gallon, but I would dramatically increase water changes regardless of how awesome or how many filters you use. It doesn't clean the water, it just turns ammonia into nitrate, which is less deadly, but still deadly.

Please, do not make assumptions. The water is actually not green, it is crystal clear. I don't know why it came out like that. Maybe the wall behind it and poor lighting.

And he is not a fancy, he is a common. That is why he is going to need 75 gallons. And again, he is not huddle up in the corner. He was scavenging for food and eating my Pleco's Algae Wafer.

So I take bard care of my fish, but you supposedly don't? Frequent water changes are bad. Your tank will never cycle. And the Nitrates aren't what will kill your fish, The size will. They will get stunted. You are going to need 40 gallons for them when fully grown. 30 For a start, then 10 extra per fish.

So please, don't tell me what I am doing wrong. Tell that to Beau, who is zooming around his CLEAR TANK.


3 days on this site. 3 Days. Now I have been driven off, again. Can no one tell me 'Wow, nice tanks!' You all have to tell me crap about what I ALREADY KNOW. So thanks, for making me feel bad and making me sick to my stomach. And for denying me the right to enjoy this site like I was.

Last edited by BettaMiah; 09-14-2011 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:28 PM   #4213 
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Originally Posted by BettaMiah View Post
Please, do not make assumptions. The water is actually not green, it is crystal clear. I don't know why it came out like that. Maybe the wall behind it and poor lighting.

And he is not a fancy, he is a common. That is why he is going to need 75 gallons. And again, he is not huddle up in the corner. He was scavenging for food and eating my Pleco's Algae Wafer.

So I take bard care of my fish, but you supposedly don't? Frequent water changes are bad. Your tank will never cycle. And the Nitrates aren't what will kill your fish, The size will. They will get stunted. You are going to need 40 gallons for them when fully grown. 30 For a start, then 10 extra per fish.

So please, don't tell me what I am doing wrong. Tell that to Beau, who is zooming around his CLEAR TANK.


3 days on this site. 3 Days. Now I have been driven off, again. Can no one tell me 'Wow, nice tanks!' You all have to tell me crap about what I ALREADY KNOW. So thanks, for making me feel bad and making me sick to my stomach. And for denying me the right to enjoy this site like I was.
Dude, no offense. but your really abbrassive. I've read many of your posts. It may be why you get such reactions.
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:37 PM   #4214 
Draug Isilme
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Originally Posted by BettaMiah View Post
Thanks. I just hate being on Websites like this. On Yahoo! I was called mean names and a fish torturer.

:( I just want to have friends and people who think I actually acre about my fish and love them and take great care of them. :(
Sorry, I was only responding because other people were talking about goldfish needing to be in a pond or a 50g, and that's not what I've come across in my research. Not that I disagree, a pond and 50g would be nice, I only wanted to express that, to me, it seemed like a situation like this would vary, but so long as it benefits both fish and owner. I wasn't trying to call you out 'cause you've never mentioned your situation- whether you were ignorant on the situation or if you had bought them temporarily until you were able to accommodate them in the right manner, or anything of the sort. So again, I appologize and my comment was more directed at the general part of the controversy on how a goldfish should be housed. I'm sure you're a great owner ^.^
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Old 09-14-2011, 11:49 PM   #4215 
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Originally Posted by Dragonii View Post
What allows Petsmart to keep so many fish in thier thanks is the fact that what you see is only a small paft of the system. I managed the fish department at a Petsmart for a couple of years. Those 10-30 gallon tanks that you see are all connected to a large system. In the back is a large filter. Our system had about 80 tanks, all connected to a sump that was about 100 gallons, we had a fluidized sand (bio) filter that was 6 feet tall and several feet in diameter. We had a fluidized carbon chamber that held about 75 lbs of pelleted carbon.
The system was powered by a bank of industrial strength Jacuzzi pumps. With the push of a single buton the system would automatically change 30% of its water. We also vacuumed the gravel twice week.

So having 20-30 goldfish in a tank for a week or two doesn'thurt the fish.

Now at home... I wouldn'teven try to keep a common or commet in a tank and I wouldn'tput a fancy in less than 29 gallons.

I personallyam working on a gf tank of my own. I plan to use a 47 gallon collum and keep 2 fish in it. I would like something wider, but space is a factor. Ghe tank will have a 500 gph canister filter along with an extra wet dry chamber.
I figured they would halve a huge filter to accomodate the goldfish, but the thing that bothers me is that at my Petsmart, it seems to have a huge output that pushes the fish around (in practically every tank at the store). Sometimes I watch and see a handful of them get stuck in a corner and try to fight their way out- I can imagine that the filter, along with the crowded accomodations, puts great stress on them. Not to mention the poor ones that get stressed too much and eventually just sit at the bottom and die. Not to mention there was this mass killing of goldfish not too long ago- dunno what they had, but I saw a good deal of them had ick.. it was horrible and the assholes had the gaul to re-stock before they thought "Hey.. maybe this isn't working out?" -.- Sorry, I'm not putting you down because I know it's your job and you work there, and I'm sure you don't work at the Petsmart that's in my home town and I know that every individual store is different.... Plus sometimes it seems cruel, but they put them there to sell, so usually the fish don't stay for too long...
Also, I'm sure you're a responsible pet owner who knows what's best, so regardless of the place you work at, I know you'll be able to provide exactly what your fish need ^.^ I'm liking your tank idea thus far, and I hope the space won't be too much of a problem so you're able to follow through

Last edited by dramaqueen; 09-16-2011 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 09-15-2011, 12:09 AM   #4216 
Draug Isilme
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Originally Posted by BettaMiah View Post
3 days on this site. 3 Days. Now I have been driven off, again. Can no one tell me 'Wow, nice tanks!' You all have to tell me crap about what I ALREADY KNOW. So thanks, for making me feel bad and making me sick to my stomach. And for denying me the right to enjoy this site like I was.
First off, I'm going to say this is meant to be constructive criticism. In no way am I trying to bash your opinions because I do respect other peoples opinions as much as I possibly can. I don't recall anyone really trying to push you down for having a small tank- the people that have commented on your tank were merely concerned about your fish and trying to give advice on the situation because they found it fitting to do so. I'm sure if you came across a situation where you full heartedly assumed there was abuse happening to a fish, you would express your opinions as well and try to talk the person into doing what is right. Your situation was left vague and the imagination is typically lead to believe that this was fish abuse (the water color really didn't help, but I know what you mean about bad lighting and such. I've tried to take pictures of my betta in his 1.5g, but the lighting and camera are so poor that it looks like his water is yellow x.x and this would be on the times I JUST changed the water 100%!) But yeah, it would help if you were to try and go about this situation a different way- instead of getting agitated because people are telling you things you've already come across (which again, keep in mind that they were concerned and trying to help, not say how horrible you are), just try and be constructive as well; let them in on how the situation is and why, and let them know you are educated on the situation and are in progress on fixing anything that is in need of fixing... As far as I'm concerned, you've let yourself fail to enjoy the site because you've only given people three days to express their opinions and from the way you've gone about it, you seem to be a bit harsh- which in turn usually pushes people away or makes them just as angry in the situation... I know what you mean whenever someone repeats something you've already etched into your head, but they usually only mean well, and I don't exactly think anyone on this site is a mind reader >.>;
Your tanks are lovely, and I'm sure you do know what you're doing. I hope you decide to give this site another chance because it is a really fantastic one ^.^
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Old 09-15-2011, 01:35 AM   #4217 
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Originally Posted by BettaMiah View Post
Please, do not make assumptions. The water is actually not green, it is crystal clear. I don't know why it came out like that. Maybe the wall behind it and poor lighting.
Your walls are white. As both a semi-novice photographer and a biological chemist, that is chlorophyll floating around your tank. Whether your tank be green or clear, that is chlorophyll, which is CLEARLY present.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BettaMiah View Post
So I take bard care of my fish, but you supposedly don't? Frequent water changes are bad. Your tank will never cycle. And the Nitrates aren't what will kill your fish, The size will. They will get stunted. You are going to need 40 gallons for them when fully grown. 30 For a start, then 10 extra per fish.
I could say the same to you, you know nothing of how I care for my fish. My tank IS cycled because I watched it cycle. I KNEW from the beginning that the tank was too small, but I was given that tank as a gift, and at the time I did not have any other fish but them. I test the water EVERYDAY, to the point where I have to buy TWO API MASTER KITS. One for my bettas, one for my goldfish due to frequency of use.

I can tell you straight up that it took 27 days for my tank to cycle and I've got the excel sheets to prove it. Nitrate doesn't just appear out of thin air, it was created by the nitrosifying and nitrifying bacteria, which can only appear if your tank is cycled.

I know what these guys (bacteria) look like under a microscope. It is my major at university. I have tested more gallons of water than a person can drink in their lifetime. I've collected more samples of water than anybody can imagine. Sometimes I think I've been IN the water longer than my fish, scuba diving and collecting soil samples.

Your tank is no better than mine. Both of us are in the wrong here, whether it be due to lack of money, space or knowledge.

I KNOW that the size will eventually claim the lives of my fish. I am negotiating getting a 30 gallon with my family because they've only recently started trusting me about my aquatic knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BettaMiah View Post
3 days on this site. 3 Days. Now I have been driven off, again. Can no one tell me 'Wow, nice tanks!' You all have to tell me crap about what I ALREADY KNOW. So thanks, for making me feel bad and making me sick to my stomach. And for denying me the right to enjoy this site like I was.
As Draug said, we are merely concerned for the well-being of you fish. There is no reason for you to stomp your feet and get upset just because you think we are "attacking" you. Do you think that I came into this website peacefully? No way.

I had several people attack me for my goldfish as well. So what did I do? I stepped up my game, I did more water changes, did my research; I proved to them that I can keep a horrendously overstocked tank by keeping on the safe side.

In the end? Instead of having a horrible obituary saying: "omg my goldfish died cuz I stuck it in a tiny tank". I can proudly say that my goldfish are still alive despite being in a small tank. The only time they ever got sick was when I brought home some plants that had ich. They recovered in TWO days, which is one dose, with malachite green. They are healthy, strong and smart. My goldfish are NOT old, barely three years old. I have seen horribly stunted goldfish before, mine are in the clear for now. I know that soon I will have to move them, sometime before next year until problems start.

Don't just lie down and cry just because people didn't shower you with rainbows. The world isn't full of rainbows.

Besides, I think your betta tank is quite nice. I like what you did with the divider, I wouldn't have the patience to do that.

Last edited by bahamut285; 09-15-2011 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 09-15-2011, 02:23 AM   #4218 
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lol everybody mad
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Old 09-15-2011, 10:14 AM   #4219 
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Originally Posted by Draug Isilme View Post
I figured they would halve a huge badass filter to accomodate the goldfish, but the thing that bothers me is that at my Petsmart, it seems to have a huge output that pushes the fish around (in practically every tank at the store). Sometimes I watch and see a handful of them get stuck in a corner and try to fight their way out- I can imagine that the filter, along with the crowded accomodations, puts great stress on them. Not to mention the poor ones that get stressed too much and eventually just sit at the bottom and die. Not to mention there was this mass killing of goldfish not too long ago- dunno what they had, but I saw a good deal of them had ick.. it was horrible and the assholes had the gaul to re-stock before they thought "Hey.. maybe this isn't working out?" -.- Sorry, I'm not putting you down because I know it's your job and you work there, and I'm sure you don't work at the Petsmart that's in my home town and I know that every individual store is different.... Plus sometimes it seems cruel, but they put them there to sell, so usually the fish don't stay for too long...
Also, I'm sure you're a responsible pet owner who knows what's best, so regardless of the place you work at, I know you'll be able to provide exactly what your fish need ^.^ I'm liking your tank idea thus far, and I hope the space won't be too much of a problem so you're able to follow through
I don't work there any more. That was about 10 years go. lol

Their system isn't perfect, first off, the all in one filtration isn't the best idea. You get ich in one tank and it can spread. We had an external filter that we would use in such cases. Cut the infected tank off e system and filter it separately.

The return jets as they come from the factory are too strong. If they would pull them off and look inside of them they would find a white piece that is used for flow control. That piece makes the jets too strong. I removed them all from my tanks when we set up that store. The angle at which they spray has something to do with it too.

"I know that every individual store is different".... that is so true. I have been in Petsmarts that I wouldn't even buy a guppy from. The guy that I replaced wasn't do a very good job himself. I took over and made a lot of changes. And I got lucky in the fact that my assistant was a dedicated fish keeper as well. He and I straightened a lot of things out there. Can't say what is going on now...

As for my personal fish, I think they are doing well.




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Old 09-15-2011, 10:54 AM   #4220 
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I'm liking your tank idea thus far, and I hope the space won't be too much of a problem so you're able to follow through
This is the Goldfish tank design.



47 Gallon Marineland column tank with custom black acrylic wall. Swimable area will be 18X18X30.
Water will flow through the gravel and into the intake chamber behind the wall. It will then be picked up by a 500 gph canister filter and then returned to a separate chamber where it will travel up through additional bio media. Air will also be pushed into the chamber to oxygenate the water. The water will rise and flow into the tank gently over the top of the inserted wall.
The top of the tank will be open to allow the water lily to grow out of the water. Light will be provided by a single high output LED grow bulb.

Unfortunately, it may take me another year to get this thing up and rolling. Besides the expense of the tank, filter, light etc... I have to custom build the stand, have the wall insert custom fabricated and then put everything together and test it. But patience pays off. That 150 gallon cichlid tank took me about a year to get it all together too.
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