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Old 10-05-2011, 12:44 AM   #1 
Banicks's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Exclamation 1 Betta | 1 Goldfish

Hi Guys,

Two receptionists at work have given up on their tiny container (probably less than .5g for both of them) for a goldfish and betta. Need some confirmation.

Betta: is currently bloated with slight raising of scales. I plan to keep him in dark heated tank at around 80'F and treat with 2tsp of epsom salts, 100% WC daily and fasting - this correct? He also has fin rot, but I want to treat the internal parasites/dropsy first. Would inclusion of IAL assist recovery?

Goldfish: never had one before, I understand they requrie at least 10g (for fancy kind) he is only about 3 inches long and the best I can do is a large tuppaware box, I reckon it'll be about 10g. I also am of the belief he will require Co2 bubbles, filter and a heater? Can't see any ill effects on him, but should I treat with AQ salt or epsom salt? Will IAL assist him in anyway?

Thank you very much in advance guys.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:49 AM   #2 
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Your treatment plan for the betta sees spot on. Maybe keep the temp at 78 until you know if it's parasites or not. Most internal bacteria flourishes at 80 and above, so that might exacerbate the problem.

For the goldfish, you'll need heavy filtration included with what you plan. I don't think any salts or IAL are needed at the moment. I don't know if IAL would even be helpful, so i'd just treat with clean water for now. Keep the water on the colder side too since they like it.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:56 AM   #3 
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Goldfish need a mininum of 20 gallons. They can grow huge if given proper care and are healthy and happy. Co2 Bubbles and a filter are a good idea, heater is a no way. Heaters can kill goldfish! Goldfish like room temperature water only!
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:17 AM   #4 
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Poor betta.. he's in the pine coning stage, not good. I'd up it to 3tsp/gallon with 100% daily water changes. IAL is always a good thing for bettas.

Goldfish usually is 5 gallons per 1 inch of fish.. so as the fish grows, so does the tank. The body may stop growing, but the internal organs and such don't. Cold water, heavy filtration, they need oxygen in the water and a lot of water changes. They are the dirtiest fish out there when it comes to waste, which in turn spikes up the ammonia and such. So cleaning the tank a couple times a week is a must.

Good luck, and good job at saving them =)
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:41 PM   #5 
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Thanks very much guys.

The Betta is currently in gallon treatment tank and dosed with 2tsp ES. Scales don't appear to be raised, so my initial diagnosis of dropsy isn't correct. I'm treating for internal parasites at this time, if after 4 days there is no improvement I will increase ES dose.

I spoke with a trusted fish store and they've recommended an under gravel filter tank setup for the goldfish. They mentioned that the output of the filter will cause oxygenation of the water as well as cycling (which I have noticed, it is a strong filter that causes bubbles when the water is returned from outlet). No heater was recommended.

Myates when you say cleaning the tank - do you mean a 100% WC and scrub the tank?

I will keep you all appraised :)
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:00 PM   #6 
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Personally I like an internal power filter for goldfish. I use a Fluval 4 and Fluval 3 Plus on maximum flow for my shubunkin tank. Then I simply let the flow break the surface for oxygenation. My goldfish seem to enjoy filtering the food that comes 'downstream' and swimming into the current.

I would just buy a cheap plastic 20 gallon tub for the goldfish. I picked up a couple of 70 litre black tubs from Bunnings for $10. Goldfish are huge waste producers, and your ammonia is going to spike pretty quickly in an uncycled environment. A 20 gallon tank is going to give you some breathing space between water changes.

If it's a fancy goldfish, just don't let the temperature drop too low. They prefer a slightly warmer temperature than comets and shubunkins. I wouldn't let it go any cooler than 15 degrees Celsius. However, this shouldn't be a problem anyway unless you put the tub somewhere especially cold.

I would do bare-bottom until you are certain the filter has cycled, as it will be easier to siphon waste off the bottom. However, if you are using a UGF, you will need to have some form of substrate to act as the biological and mechanical filtration. If you do use gravel, make certain it is a large enough size that your goldfish can't swallow any while its sifting around for food.

Goldfish are fun, if a little food-oriented. I feed mine NLS pellets, Omega One flakes, frozen bloodworms, frozen brine shrimp, and live blackworms. My guys hate their veggies, but most goldfish will guts down blanched lettuce and zucchini.

I'm sure your goldfish is very thankful to have been rescued. I will never get the obsession people have with putting fish into the smallest possible body of water they can find. Yes, I'm sure it must be so enriching to live in a sterile, waste-filled bowl.
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:32 PM   #7 
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Hello! Thank you for saving 2 of the most mistrreated fish in the world!

I own both, so I hope I can help.

To start-

Is your Goldfish a fancy or a common (To tell, fancies have a double tail and commons only have one, another way is fancies are usually more plump. Commons are those ones that they sell for feeder fish.)

Commons, fully grown, will require at least 55 gallons. Double filtration no matter what. Most people reccomend at least 75 gallons per fish, but I believe that is absolute bull. Even though it has happened before, most Goldfish do not grow 2 feet, usually at least 10-12 inches fully grown.

Fancies, fully grown require at least 20 gallons. 10 is pushing it, I wouldn't try it ESPECIALLY for a first time Goldie owner. 30 is better. Just on their own, with double filtration.

Goldfish produce so much ammonia and waste, on top of the double filtration, you need to do at least 10% every week water changes.

Goldfish are not easy fish. They are actually very, very hard to keep. More so expert fish. If you do not feel ready for the responsibility, work, and space he will require, please, rehome him!

I am sure you already know how to care for the Betta, so I'll just say good luck to that!

In addition, Goldfish are COLDWATER fish and Bettas are TROPICAL. You can't house them together! You should tell that to that person. And plus that tank is an insanely small size for a Betta, ESPECIALLY for the Goldfish, and the both of them, it is murder. I wouldn't expect them to last an hour! Plus the Betta would attack the Goldfish. Especially if it is fancy, those long fins are just too tempting.

Good luck! PM me if you have any questions regarding anything about the Goldie!
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:39 PM   #8 
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LittleBettaFish, thanks very much for your assistance, I hadn’t thought of getting a Bunnings container. I’ll pop down tonight and grab one as well as an internal filter. My computer desk has become a fish desk now LOL.

Would 2 internals be necessary for the one goldfish in a 20g uncycled? If so, wow they produce a lot of waste.

The current caused by a filter on max is quite a lot, do they enjoy strong current flow out of curiosity?

BettaMiah, thanks very much for your assistance. I believe he has a double tail, I will take a photo this evening and put it up for confirmation. Sorry last night was hectic trying to set them up and other things I had to do and really didn’t notice.

I feel up for the challenge and learning curves. I have enough spare time once I have the setup going to keep at it!

I know what you mean, I was telling some members what the girls who previously owned them were doing. Kept in those small divider tanks with probably less than a gallon capacity in total. They didn’t change the water for 2 weeks or have correct food or water conditioner, then they started complaining about the smell. All this time I was telling them it’s an unsuitable tank size and that they needed proper food and water conditioner.

So, what did they do? Change the water… no no, that would be sensible. Added perfume to the water of course >.<

How they managed to survive the month and a bit with those two are beyond me. I need some hardcore survivor names for them, that’s for sure! I took a photo of the tank condition before I took them out, totally forgot to do a check of the water balances too but I guarentee you it would have been beyond my test kit colour spectrum. Smelt the water and just wanted to get rid of it *dry gags*
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:27 PM   #9 
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I have 200 litres of black tubs on my rumpus floor at the moment. Mine had a sticker saying recycled plastic, do not use for food storage, but I've not run into any problems. I've been housing sensitive wilds and imported guppies in them and not seen the slightest indication of poor health.

Anyways, a small internal filter such as a Fluval 2 Plus or even an alternative cheaper brand should be fine with one goldfish. I just have two because my goldfish have yet to move into their big 450 litre tank.

My goldfish are shubunkin so are more streamlined and energetic swimmers than the fancier types. However, my black moor lived in that same tank and never had any difficulty with the amount of current present.

Some internals come with spraybars (or you can make your own) fitted, which will disperse the flow somewhat if you find your goldfish is having problems.

I think my goldfish like the current because in the wild food would naturally be forced downstream. Sometimes I come down to find one of the smaller ones swimming directly at the filter outlet.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:03 AM   #10 
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Originally Posted by Banicks View Post

So, what did they do? Change the water… no no, that would be sensible. Added perfume to the water of course >.<
HAHAHAHA that is something my daughter would do or my mother
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