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Female has verticals, but hides from male?

10K views 91 replies 12 participants last post by  soady 
#1 ·
Tank info: 8gal, filtered, heated, lightly planted, divided with a piece of wood and a safe net. They both live on their own side.

Tank mates:
6 neon tetras (they can go through the net to each side) 2 Ancistrus and 1 Helena snail.

The male has made a huge, thick, bubble nest (10x4 inches). She is swelling with eggs and has vertical stripes. Now, I haven't done proper conditioning but I fed them all sorts of different foods (dried worms, flakes, pellets..) a bit more than usual for the past 2 weeks. I will do proper conditioning once I obtain frozen bloodworms (should be soon).

Anyway, since they both seem ready, my question is:

Why does the female hide from the male? They were together for 2 hours before I took her back to her side of the tank and I was watching them all that time. She had found 3 very good hiding places and she just went from one another all the time so no nipped fins.

But, he attacked her a few times after what she started swimming frantically in circles at the bottom for a few seconds. I realized that nothing will happen between them and took her away.

The male was behaving great, flaring, dancing, fixing the nest, trying to get her to swim to his nest...

I don't understand her behavior, someone please explain.

Thank you lots!


This photo was taken just now.
 
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#69 ·
1 thing i can add is too much hideing space can be bad too wat i tend to do is after 3 days n the female is still hideing i will remove her n the male then set them back up why i do this ? most males as we know have they own was of doing things but wat i finds that works well is a 12 once plastic drinking glass fill it with water , place in in the spawning tank now the water in the tank should be a lil under the lid of the glass,wat u may find to happen from time to time some female may jump out on her own , u can give my idea a try next time, right now i'll say it is working for me about 95% of the time 16 of 20 spawns is abot that right?
 
#72 ·
That's a great advice, letting her jump out on her own. Some breeders divide them if nothing happens in only 30 minutes. I will keep a "close" eye on them when I put them together, and make sure that they notice me, so I wouldn't disturb them. I don't like the idea of leaving them together for a few days until they spawn. It would be great if she jumped out, but if that doesn't happen I will put them together for a few hours, and if nothing happens try again tomorrow. Does this seem okay, to introduce them every day until they spawn?
 
#74 ·
Fish are different my ct pair that I spawned were conditioned lots and so in the spawn tank breeding was the only thing on their minds they didn't even notice me watching them for hours. I did see them spawn it was cool. Other people have had to cover the whole tank though so that the pair is not distracted.
 
#75 ·
Well, I will be watching from far above, just enough to see what they're up to. I won't be able to see much anyway, since I will be using black plastic containers. I know black is not the best color, but it will have a light above and I will be able to get more of them since they are a lot cheaper than the colored ones here.
 
#76 ·
lol.. the self proclaimed "greatest breeder" said to do the 30 minute thing, correct? It's very rare to get them to breed that quickly.. why most shake their heads at him :p Many, many many virgin pairs can, and often do, take days to a week+ to breed.. they are together during the whole time. As long as they are in breeding mode, the female eggy and they are flirting, they can be together for as long as it takes.

You removing them after 30 minutes you will most likely won't get them to breed.. if anything it would be 1 out of every 100 tries. That guy doesn't just give them 30 minutes.. trust me.. he just claims it so he can say he is the greatest lol.

By disrupting them every day they won't breed.. they won't be able to accomplish their "ritual", the male needs time to get the female submissive, and new girls don't give it up easily.

You can try it, but unless she is VERY eggy, they have bred before.. it won't happen. Quickest it took mine (with an experienced female) was a few hours, longest it took another pair was over a week. I have seen/heard very few take less than an hour, and those tend to be well experienced pairs.

Good luck!
 
#77 ·
Black will be very hard to deal with.. you can't look under the nest, and seeing fry that are literally the size of pin pricks will be very difficult.. when you siphon out the bottom daily their water and dead food, be very careful as you won't be able to see the fry and at first they won't be moving a whole lot out of your way.

Could also make it difficult for the fry to see the food, especially since you may not be feeding them the wiggly worms.
 
#79 ·
It will be tricky to siphon but I will have good lightning and do it very slowly.

I have no problem with leaving them together for a few days, I just wanna make sure that they are okay and monitor them throughout the process to see if they should be separated. I am not looking for the quickest way to spawn them once they are introduced, I just want them to spawn the best.
 
#80 ·
I agree with myates - that they shouldn't be disturbed during the breeding process. If I'm not mistaken, they are mature, right? Sometimes mature pairs will breed within the 24 hour mark, specially ones that has previously released eggs. Just let them see each other for a day the release before dark. If you're not using extra light, they should become inactive after dark but can sense each other. They should spawn the following morning.

I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know what you have decided to do, other than using a black tub. IME as long as it's safe for fish, it will be fine. I too breed in black tubs which I often totally cover during the spawning process (to avoid breeze destroying nest/eggs). Irid colored fry (except for royal blue) will look light colored and will be easy to spot. But red or dark colored fry can be impossible to spot . . . imagine a super black spawn. Lol . . . . And as for gunk, they will be sort of light brownish, so can be spotted. In case they're not, you can siphon water only. This will reduce ammonia build up. I clean my tubs every month, specially if I have a high number (200 or more).
 
#82 ·
Hey, now that you mentioned siphoning only water, I was thinking about putting a couple of larger stones in one place so I could stick my siphon between them and use very low suction power.

I read somewhere that the easiest way to catch a lot of BBS at once is to put the container in darkness and then bring a source of light close to one side, like using a candle or a flashlight. They all round up near the light and you can easily scoop them out. I was wondering, would the fry act the same? If I could get them all close to one another it would be much easier to siphon.

I will be using plastic foil instead of a lid through which I couldn't see anything. It will also allow the light in, and keep the air humid.
 
#81 ·
I always let the female jump out on her own. You have to make sure that the container is big enough that she can swim forward a bit so she can get a "running start" in order to be able to jump. I also make sure that there is about an inch lip above the water line because the male can spook the female and in a startled swim away may accidently jump out.

Now, I will leave the pair together as long as they are still flirting with each other. In the method where you let the female have hiding places, it takes a little longer. I just breed two virgins about a month ago and it took them a week to figure out what they were doing. But this entire time, they were flirting back and forth. And man what a nest the male made.lol

Good luck with this spawn soady. Its a real treat to get to raise your own!
 
#83 ·
Thanks! :)

Yeah, those bubble nests can get crazy big if he stays motivated long enough. :D

If I want to wait for her to jump, how many days should I wait for the jump before I place her there myself, once she is in a jar in the breeding tank? Maybe she just isn't a jumper, that's why I'm asking, even though she sometimes jumps for food when it's feeding time. What I want to know is when can I say: "She is ready but she will not jump." ? :)
 
#85 ·
I siphon exactly as you described, but I straightened out the end of the tube by fixing it straight with a piece of a wooden "straw". :) There is also a wider tube attached to the other side which I use to suck in the gravel and siphon it thoroughly. I can always use the other side (the thinner one) for more delicate siphoning.

If all the egg shells float, can I just scoop them out?
 
#89 ·
OFL uses a wooden chopstick just like that too. I use a clear plastic straw as I want a clear view of what I am siphoning up. But since you won't be able to even see your fry, guess it doesn't matter.

You might want to place the bottom of the siphon equal with the wood.. you will want to be able to put the siphon as close to the bottom as possible to help avoid sucking up curious fry.

I would make sure it's the size of the airline tubing.. as even airline tubing sucks up fry very easily.. anything bigger then you are asking for trouble. But that would work for bigger tanks :)
 
#90 ·
I just noticed that the wood is badly placed on this picture, it is easy to pull it up and line it with the tube. :) I will put some sort of a baffle with holes just large enough for the debris to flow by. And yes, I'll keep it close to the bottom.
 
#91 ·
If available, bamboo works better - stronger/lasts longer. Make a small cut where you tie them. This will avoid it from moving up or down. I set my tube slightly longer than the stick/bamboo. . . . I have one that has a piece of plastic at the end to scrape off sticky gunk on the floor. But I never use this for fry, only for juvie or adult tanks.
 
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