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Old 07-24-2014, 04:58 PM   #661 
hrutan
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It's been a fascinating discussion. By the way, I didn't mention it before, but I love that you cite your sources, logisticsguy.

The discussion went so fast that I missed a full page without realizing it. So, I went back until I found stuff that was unfamiliar, and found your initial post about salt, and then decided to do some hunting online. Unfortunately, all I could find was that appropriately dosed aquarium salt won't harm the biological filter. There wasn't much that I could find (at least in a quick search) about the beneficial bacteria that is part of the fish's immune system itself - a prime example being gut bacteria. That's my big issue of curiosity.

Since gut bacteria is only just being understood in the human body, it's not that much of a surprise that there isn't a whole lot of easily available data on aquarium fish...

We do know that some strains of bacteria are sensitive about salt, and others don't care.

So! With that in mind - and forgive me if you answered this and I didn't understand - do you have any concerns about constant exposure to AQ salt having any effects on the gut bacteria of your fish (long term or cross-generational), or do you believe that the probiotics you're dosing your fish with will offset any ill effects of the salt?
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:38 PM   #662 
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Very good question hrutan! The addition of the aq salt at correct dose does not make the fish itself much saltier on the inside. Many of the breeders I know using salt with no additional probiotics have had no ill effects at all. The gut bacteria are a hardy bunch but the antibiotics can really do a number on them. The use of aquarium salt has been going on for decades and I cant find any evidence yet that its use causes any long term or cross generational damage to the fish. It may well exist I just have not come across any. Use of aq salt at higher doses than recommended for long period of time can cause liver and kidney issues. Used correctly it has been proven to be a safe and useful product. At 1 tsp per 5 gallon the salinity level is still lower than the fish natural environment in the streams of Thailand. Many Thai breeders add salt as well. Most North American tap water is almost devoid of salt. Lots in our food for sure but little in the water.
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:11 PM   #663 
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Originally Posted by logisticsguy View Post
At 1 tsp per 5 gallon the salinity level is still lower than the fish natural environment in the streams of Thailand.
Oh, really? That information makes me a lot more comfortable. I'm hoping to breed in a couple of years. Right now I'm at the "assimilating information" step. Anything that I come across to help fry survival rates and general stock health is of great interest. So, thank you.

Also, my apologies for any undue derailment of your journal.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:03 PM   #664 
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Originally Posted by hrutan View Post
Oh, really? That information makes me a lot more comfortable. I'm hoping to breed in a couple of years. Right now I'm at the "assimilating information" step. Anything that I come across to help fry survival rates and general stock health is of great interest. So, thank you.

Also, my apologies for any undue derailment of your journal.
Haha no worries. A few years ago I in exactly the same position of *assimilating information* before I started breeding. This site helped me greatly getting started and I was lucky enough to find some good people to help me along. Ive had the benefit of some time to try things on my own and do comparison studies. Along the way I dealt with diseases and had to research my butt off to try and save fish I had both a financial and emotional stake in. A knowledge of the basics readily available here at bettafish. Just passing on my experience here. I am by no means an expert Phd Dr Fish or anything and a when it comes to show standards form and tail ect. I have a lot to learn.

My advice is to research 5 things and draw your own conclusions as there are so many differing opinions about fish care. In a nutshell my Top 5 things

1. Use 1 tsp salt per 5 gallons. No more. Use salinity variations once in a while ie skip aq salt for a water change once per month or use a temporary increase if you see something you don't like on your fish.

2. Learn about using fish baths and dips in hospital containers. Every fish keeper should have Methylene blue on hand especially for new fish, rescue fish or imported fish.

3. Spirulina. See rant above.

4. Quarantine everything even plants for 21 days and keep separate hoses, nets, turkey basters apart from the home boys. All this stuff should be kept in a bucket of heavily salted water.

5. Probiotics. This stuff works. Lactobacteria Rhamnosis GG is what I studied on my own fish. Sprinkle some Culturelle on a few bloodworms once in awhile.

In the last 500 fry born here Ive had 1 die and it was pretty weak from the start. There are many ways to keep these fish. This is just my experience with them and Im perfectly ok with people who do things differently we are all still learning everyday.

I found this old post interesting. More people should use the search function at this site btw.

http://www.bettafish.com/showthread.php?t=255001
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