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persistent fin rot

2K views 36 replies 4 participants last post by  nel3 
#1 · (Edited)
i do have AQ salt though ive gone about using it a bit differently. i did go with the full dose of 1sp/1g though it was damaging the fins of my VT and it seemed to burn their fins when properly disolved. ive been using it at 1/2 dose for the treatment to avoid damaging their fins.

i made this post BC my DT in the avy has fin rot often enough. i only use AQ salt when i know clean water doesnt do the trick. last bout required 1/2 dose treatment and it took 14 days to clear (8 days AQ salt, 4 without). he's been with finrot for some time, 3 weeks march 10-15 was 1tsp/g, february 22-28 was 1/2 tsp or less concentration of AQ.

the finrot goes in phases, some areas go black and rot and it shows no more black but the nest day more comes along and continues. he's been off AQ salt since march 15th and ive started to do 50% wc for him in order to try to make stable parameters (before only 100wc every 5 days). march 22 i did the 50wc for the DT. the rot is still there but its going to show again in the next 24hrs.

i have aq salt, Kordons ick, jungle fungus eliminator, api general cure and epsom salts. i dont have the top of the line meds BC Quebec is stuck in the dark ages with fish meds bc they ban the sale of products with the best healing chemicals. that meant no maryacyn and similar products. i'd have to order online or take a trip outside the province or to NY to buy in person.

can i use JFE to deal with the finrot or should i try general cure? he's in a 2.5g heated tank without a filter. this is the first time AQ salt didnt do the trick,

 
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#2 ·
bump

i seriously need some advice here its eaten through his dorsal fin and i fear it will reach his body. will any sort of medication help? the AQ salt doesnt do much for this particular fish.
 
#3 ·
If he is not responding to clean water and salt, then the 3 meds I would recommend are: Triple Sulfa, Fungus Cure or Furan-2. Be sure and follow the directions and complete the med cycle of which ever you choose. Stopping the treatment as soon as you see results, RESULTS in med resistant bacteria. The good sign that I see is that the ends are red and raw...to me that says fin rot. IF he is in a small tank (5g or smaller), I'd treat the entire tank instead of moving him to a QT.

Good Luck :D

Lori
 
#4 ·
Hi nel3. Of the choices you have available, I would go with the Fungus Eliminator. I'm assuming it has acriflavine in it (hoping, anyway), which would be the closest to an antibiotic. The other meds will only have parasite medications.

Poor Nelliel. He looks like a totally different fish.
 
#5 ·
**Like** I couldn't remember Fungus Eliminator :)

API Fungus Cure: *Contains 22 mg of Neutroflavin per 5 ml (which is a form of Acriflavin, an effective anti-fungal)
 
#6 · (Edited)
thank you for the rplies, i dont think i can get api fungus cure on short notice, its probably on the black list. i'll go with the JFE. just how long should i go about the treatment? i did mention it rots a bit and clears up only to comeback. any timed results to look for any reoccurances?

when i get a chance to go to Plattsburg i'll get some grade A meds.

i got this from another site but it does mention 1 med i have on hand. i was asking about Jungle ick guard but my father couldnt find it in store (i couldnt head down there.)
Jungle Fungus Eliminator (crystals)
Active ingredients:
NaCl, Nitrofurazone, furazolidone, potassium dichromate.
Diseases: Columnaris, furunculosis, Costia, dropsy, fin and mouth rot, white film on eyes (usually cataracts and cloudy eyes), hemorrhage septicemia
Contraindications:
It is an effective treatment for fungal infections on bettas, however it can damage live plants.

Jungle Ick Guard
Active ingredients: .20% triethylene glycol, victoria green, nitromersol, acriflavine
Diseases: treats Ich (white spot)
 
#12 ·
Do you have a link for the crystals? I think I have some...got it from a friend, and it wasn't labeled...I've had it for a while...Yellow powdery crystals...was told it was Nitrofurazone by a fish/chem friend.
 
#8 ·
ty very much, just started his treatment after a 100 wc. he's not water param shoicked (not yet anyway). i'll see how he behaves. is 1 week too long to treat him for this?
 
#10 ·
No a week should be appropriate. Good luck!
ty very much. so far no visible regrowth sings or remission but im hoping for the best/.

his fins before this particular bout had both ventrals intact 60% more caudals and dorsal coverage and a full anal tail fin. there is signs some anal fin is dissapearing a bit but its looks white so i cant tell if its regrowth or loss.

which particular meds should i buy when i have the chance? im trying to find jungle anti parasite pellets, some maracyn products.
 
#13 ·
thank yiou very much, i'll get kanaplex and maracyn 2 one the first opportunity i have to go to Plattsburg

an update
march 26, put 3.5tsp into the tank (bit above 2g total with decor)
march 29 25%wc and 2 tsp into the new water total for a small half gal over dose (though first 3 days were a bit under dosed)
today his anal and dorsal dont show any easily noticeable signs of rot. his caudals are still going slowly but brown edges are less noticeable. i dont know if tis temporary remission or healing.
i dont know how long i can use the meds before causing harm to the fish as i didnt get a labeled bottle. i did read somewhere use until cured but i wont fully trust that until i see an actual label.

Do you have a link for the crystals? I think I have some...got it from a friend, and it wasn't labeled...I've had it for a while...Yellow powdery crystals...was told it was Nitrofurazone by a fish/chem friend.
i dont have it myself, the store put them into an empty 138g fish food bottle. though they did have a huge bottle that was properly labeled in the store. i should probably drop by there to read the labels myself in the next few days.
 
#15 ·
I would say you can continue with treatment for at least another three or four days. In some severe cases, treatment can last for two weeks or more.
ty very much, i'll go for another 3-4 days atleast given how the finrot has been showing up.
 
#16 ·
ive just checked my DT now and i see very minimal signs of finrot. i'll continue for atleast another 2 days on his meds. so far no other fin loss has occured on the anal and dorsal (or other fins.)
 
#18 ·
ive just done a 100wc for nelliel and ive removed nearly all traces of the medication from his water. his fins dont show any signs of rot atm and its been like that for 4 days. i'll monitor his fins for any new signs of reoccuring. ive had him on meds for 11 days.

im glad that i went into that mom/pop pet store several months ago. the store didnt keep the cleanest fish tanks nor exceptional care for betta but it was the only store that had JFE. i bought it on a whim, not being sure if id ever have to use it.
 
#20 ·
im very glad also though it'll be more reassuring to not see any signs of it within a week. his case is/was dificult to deal with the mixed signs or recovery and reinfection.
 
#21 ·
Rot can be that way because if the bacteria isn't treated completely, it can come back even more resistant than ever. And sometimes we think we've nailed it completely but there's just enough residual trace that it stays on, stubborn as heck. It's a pain in the neck, ain't it?
 
#22 ·
Rot can be that way because if the bacteria isn't treated completely, it can come back even more resistant than ever. And sometimes we think we've nailed it completely but there's just enough residual trace that it stays on, stubborn as heck. It's a pain in the neck, ain't it?
indeed it is, ive had better luck with my other betta but this one is an exception which hopefully wont pose too much trouble for me. his fin regrowth probably will never recover, or take extremly long to do so.

i'll need to drop by that mom/pop store to read the med instruction better ie time limits for treatment but i hope nothing worse happens until i can get the other stronger meds. Quebec is in the dark ages and loves the questionable ____fix meds with tea tree oil extract :evil::evil::evil:.
 
#23 ·
in the past 10 days ive had to put thesame fish into the JFE meds again. its been 3 days i took him off the meds. he hasnt eaten for the past 5 days and its a bit worrying me.

the place where i got the JFE has left the fish items but luckily i'll be going to Plattsburgh tomorrow for meds.

is there any merit in trying Aq salt again on him?
 
#25 · (Edited)
For fin rot? Yes, it could help. His lack of appetite is a little worrisome though so I'm hoping it's just having been in meds and not something internal. :(
thank you for the reply Sakura, unfortunately i wont have a chance to try it on him. thanks for all the advice in treating his ailments while he was still alive. i'll still go to Plattsburgh to get maracyn 2 amoung things to be better prepared for such situations.

he passed sometime between 7pm-11pm yesterday. im not too sure what did it but atleast he was in normal clean water for 3 days after the meds stopped. there's no obvious exterior signs of sickness for him. he did lose his appetite after 3 days after starting the 2nd round of 8 day med cycle.

i do feel partially responsible as i have been feeding only 2 pellets a day on any given day. sometimes i overfeed them to balance it out to the 3-4 pellet equivalent. i left the food right in front of his mouth but he never tried to go for it, garlic extract didnt work either.

im sad he's gone though releive in the sense that he wont have to suffer any sort of body rot or just too many reoccurences.

i'll clean out my 2.5g tank and leave it as a hospital tank. i cant understand my 2,5g tank at all. within 4-5 days i get.5-.75 ppm ammonia. a 50wc will only cut out .25 ppm within a few hours. i dont think i'll use it for regular fish use but its much better than a 1g for a hospital tank.
 
#27 ·
Thank you very much. I've purchased maracyn two though found no tetracyline. I'll get some kanaplex from the net. Is it worth getting tetracyline and also erythromicin or will the overlap with kanaplex or API gen cure and maracyn two? If so I'll get them next time I go or go nine to do so.
 
#28 ·
Nel, I wouldn't worry about the tetracycline or erythromycin. I'm 99% sure you're dealing with a gram negative bacteria here and both tetra and erythro only treat gram positive.

Also, I'm so sorry for his loss. :(

Check your tap water. You could have a source of ammonia already in it.
 
#29 ·
Nel, I wouldn't worry about the tetracycline or erythromycin. I'm 99% sure you're dealing with a gram negative bacteria here and both tetra and erythro only treat gram positive.

Also, I'm so sorry for his loss. :(

Check your tap water. You could have a source of ammonia already in it.
thank you for the reply, i'll just focus on getting Kanaplex then. btw what does a gram negative bacteria mean?

i wont sugar coat it but its still surprisng. i knew he'd be weak from not eating so the posibility was there but i though he'd last longer or atleast recover and get back to normal. he's now buried in my 6 inch Hypoestes pot. all of my dead fish are still very close by in the long living plants i have. Nelliel lived for 27 months approxiamtely, though the last 21 months were with me.

the api test came in and it detected no ammonia which doesnt surprise me. i did use prime for most of his WC as i do for most of my betta but prime shouldnt be that significant for raising ammonia much. one suspect may be the detrius left behind before and after the wc. i did do gravel vac as part of the 50wc though the aculimation might have warranted a 75wc instead??
 
#30 ·
Aquarium Medications and Treatments; Antibiotics, Chemical and Organic. Has some info on bacteria.

How often do you do vacuum cleaning in the tank? I suggest once a week if you can. You'd be so surprised as the junk that gathers under the gravel and yes, it can definitely cause higher ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels. I'm glad you don't have ammonia in your tap water; that can make things pretty complicated sometimes if your source water is contaminated.

For water changes . . . well, I'm an advocate for frequent, big water changes but not everyone agrees. My theory is nothing controls the water quality better than having as much clean water go in as possible. I personally don't think that 100% changes remove beneficial bacteria but some people do and that's fine. It's all up to everyone's individual preferences and beliefs. So I'd say do as big a water change as you feel is necessary.
 
#31 ·
Aquarium Medications and Treatments; Antibiotics, Chemical and Organic. Has some info on bacteria.

How often do you do vacuum cleaning in the tank? I suggest once a week if you can. You'd be so surprised as the junk that gathers under the gravel and yes, it can definitely cause higher ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels. I'm glad you don't have ammonia in your tap water; that can make things pretty complicated sometimes if your source water is contaminated.

For water changes . . . well, I'm an advocate for frequent, big water changes but not everyone agrees. My theory is nothing controls the water quality better than having as much clean water go in as possible. I personally don't think that 100% changes remove beneficial bacteria but some people do and that's fine. It's all up to everyone's individual preferences and beliefs. So I'd say do as big a water change as you feel is necessary.
ive only tried 50wc on the 2.5g 2 times. most of the time its 4-5 day 100wc which may lead to too clean water. ive had trouble trying to moderate such. ive seen the gunk that hides in the gravel after 4-5 days, its 2x worse if i dont do any wc for 7 days.

the main victim of the gravel vac remains to be the 5g cycled for obvious reasons. i havent tried 50wc on my 3.4g kks but i do find they'd be easier to control the parameters due to more water.

thank you for the link on meds/diseases.
 
#33 ·
thanks Sakura8. his problems may have just stemmed from genetics. as soon as he came into my hands his fins were very fragile to the point that AQ salt for every episode would be overkill. this happened every 2 to 3 weeks that his fins would tear. it was better at times to forget aq salt and let fresh water do the healing.
 
#35 · (Edited)
The larger the fins, the more fragile the tissue and bad genetics doesn't help. You took great care of him for all those months. :)
thank you Sakura8, you can really tell his fins were too large. his dorsal never did full flare, 80% was the most and often it was like in the avy with the other half drooping.

my oversize fin issues arent done yet. my DeT has large fins also and they're torn on the edges but no issues like Nelliel so far (hope it doesnt do the same for the DeT.)

this question is a bit off topic but what does a egg spot on a female betta look like? ive only had 1 female betta (to replace my VT) and ive noticed a short 1mm stubby spike behind her belly. is this the eggspot? cant get a clear shot of it easily, she's rather active lol.
 
#37 ·
If that little spot is white and it's kind of between her two ventral fins (the long ones that hang down), then yes. It's probably an egg spot. Some times it's really obvious and some times the girls like to hide them a little more.

yes it is, thank you very much Sakura. only thing is my female pK's is more noticeable.
 
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