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My male betta is still having eye issues.. finally got good pictures.

6K views 94 replies 8 participants last post by  rmarkham 
#1 ·
Hi everyone.

I've been dealing with a case of cloudy eye with my male HMPK for close to a month now. There was a point about a week ago where it was quite swollen.. but has since improved. I've tried aquarium salt treatments... epson salt treatments and daily water changes... It has gotten slightly better but he still doesn't seem to be at 100%.

He was MUCH worse recently... but he has never lost his appetite... just a bit of energy.

He lives alone in a planted 5 gallon tank that has been set up since 8/12. I upgraded him from a 2.5 gallon in August and had him in a 2.5 gallon prior (I got him in 1/2012).
Ammonia-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-5-10
pH ~7

Diet- frozen food (brine shrimp, blood worms, etc) NLS betta pellets

I do water changes every week... normally.. have been doing them more often recently due to the eye issue.

Until yesterday his tank was VERY heavily planted and didn't leave much room for swimming really... I had a massive anubias plant on driftwood in there and he spent much of his time hiding in there and I would only see him when I fed him at night.

Yesterday I decided to move the anubias monstrosity to my 29G planted tank and did some re-arranging. Now he has PLENTY of room to swim around and has been doing so today.. at least from what I've seen so far.

His one eye is still a milky color and is slightly larger than his healthy eye. I can see it moving like a normal eye, but it still appears to surrounded by fluid. I recently got a DSLR and have been able to FINALLY take some pictures of his eye.. which was very difficult to do with my old camera/his old tank set up.

Anyone have any thoughts? I did use flash for all of these, but you can see which eye I'm concerned about.

It's the farther away eye in this shot.


You can really see how one eye is white-ish in this one



This is the bad eye







Blurry, but shows how the bad eye is enlarged


This is his good eye

 
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#33 ·
have no problem doing several doses if I need too since it's a mild drug and won't harm my fish.

If I see no improvement I might try API trimeth-sulfa (bactrim) which is broad spectrum and will cover Gram pos and Gram neg. I could aslo get API Tetracycline which will also cover a broad spectrum.

I know that when looking at antibiotic resistance it's often the dosage that the patient can tolerate that limits the effectiveness of the drug. For example, you could pump someone full of Penicillin and kill the bacteria, but you might also kill the patient. Since I was doing a double dose, I really should have seen some sort of improvement if it was a gram positive infection.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Mostly staph I think. I don't know about double Erythryo vs. Kanamyacin.

Yeah by one round I mean the 5-7 days.. or roughly a week, and this includes an additional dose at day 3... Basically treating every 3 days for X number of weeks, and big water changes in between weeks. Usually it takes at least two rounds (or two weeks) but I've seen it take 3 to 4. I've never seen it fail past a month, unless the fish succumbed to the disease before the treatment took hold, which unfortunately can happen rather quickly in other fish without a labyrinth lung. :( It just seems like a slow med for some external problems (especially flukes) but it seems to work with time.

My bottle also says 1 tsp per 20 gal.

ETA: Tetracyline isn't worth much except for minor fin rot that could otherwise probably be helped by clean water and salt. It's just so overused anymore a lot of resistant to it, also fish really hate it.
 
#37 ·
Mostly staph I think. I don't know about double Erythryo vs. Kanamyacin.

Yeah by one round I mean the 5-7 days.. or roughly a week, and this includes an additional dose at day 3... Basically treating every 3 days for X number of weeks, and big water changes in between weeks. Usually it takes at least two rounds (or two weeks) but I've seen it take 3 to 4. I've never seen it fail past a month, unless the fish succumbed to the disease before the treatment took hold, which unfortunately can happen rather quickly in other fish without a labyrinth lung. :( It just seems like a slow med for some external problems (especially flukes) but it seems to work with time.

Hmmm, at least where I work and we see a large variety of patients, most strains of Staph species are susceptible to Erythro, unless you have an MRSA or some of the Coag Neg Staphs can get ugly, but I digress.

I didn't know to add the extra dose at day 3, that's good to know!
 
#36 ·
Sounds like a plan, markham. Haha, I assume with your background I don't have to warn you about sulfa allergies like I usually do. Since I have a sulfa allergy myself, I always try to warn anyone who is going to use Triple Sulfa.

EDIT: Thanks for clarifying for me, Callistra. Yeah, it will work but it probably isn't the most effective med for external parasites. But since it will target both internal and external, it's a good choice for now.
 
#38 ·
That sucks! I had to rack my brain, but I have taken a sulfa drug before.. so I won't have some horrific reaction... that would be a horribly funny way to find out though... Um.. Doc, I was giving my fish drugs.. and had an allergic reaction.
 
#40 ·
An aquatic MRSA could potentially be disastrous for the food fish industry. :shock:

EDIT: Yes, I agree about the tetracycline. I'd try the Sulfa first.

Yeah, I was like in 4th grade when I was given a sulfa drug for a cough. Got a horrible rash and my throat closed up within 24 hours. o_O Finding out you have an allergy while dosing your fish would definitely not be fun, eh?
 
#41 ·
If he suddenly appears to be really sick while on the prazi, should I immediately switch over to trimeth sulfa and assume it's still bacterial?

I mean, he's held on so far and has an appetite every day so hopefully this won't even come into play...
 
#47 ·
I still haven't seen any improvement or change at all.. not that I was expecting to after only a few days. I ordered Kanamycin to try as well.

I was doing some reading at work and erythro isn't as strong of a drug as I thought. Kanomycin is also an aminoglycoside drug but is stronger, so I'm going to try it as well as the Prazipro

My question is how do I treat with this drug? Do I feed it, use it as a bath?
 
#48 ·
Eye type injuries/infections can take weeks/months to treat

That's why I remove ANYTHING that might scratch up their eyes.

When my bettas are hunting for food, they are 100% focused on the prey. Mine will launch themselves towards rocks if they think a meal is waiting for them.

The only decoration in your tank that could have damaged his eye was probably the lava rock.

Also when a fish is skittish or easily startled, they can bash themselves up against sharp objects. Hence the occasional missing scale for some fish.

When you factor in the amount of time & medication it takes to treat a injured fish...... euthanizing is easier.

Those medications you're using are above my skill level. No experience with them
 
#51 ·
That's why I remove ANYTHING that might scratch up their eyes.

When my bettas are hunting for food, they are 100% focused on the prey. Mine will launch themselves towards rocks if they think a meal is waiting for them.

The only decoration in your tank that could have damaged his eye was probably the lava rock.

Also when a fish is skittish or easily startled, they can bash themselves up against sharp objects. Hence the occasional missing scale for some fish.

When you factor in the amount of time & medication it takes to treat a injured fish...... euthanizing is easier.

Those medications you're using are above my skill level. No experience with them[/QUOTE
You're probably right about the lava rock. I completely re-scaped his tank and the lava rock has been moved to my 29G.
 
#52 ·
You can double dose, but I wouldn't. It can be hard on the kidneys. I would just add the one level scoop dose (make sure you level it or you will end up with about a double dose). You probably won't need a double dose. You can very safely treat up to two weeks by dosing every 48 hours, or if you're doing daily water changes you'll have to add back in daily what you take out, and then redose a full every 48.
 
#53 ·
You can combine the PraziPro and the Kanaplex for an effective antiparasite/antibacterial med. If you did want to do a double-dose bath of Kanaplex, I would only do one a day for a week and see if there is an improvement. I have not tried Kanaplex in this manner so we would be in uncharted territory. Otherwise, I would use the Kanaplex as a constant soak.
 
#54 ·
Kanaplex loses its effectiveness after 48 hours, no matter how much you put in there so dosing once a week wouldn't be the best idea.. sorry.. he'd be getting a hard hit then going most of the rest of the week with no meds, which is generally a good way to build resistant bacteria. Sorry.
 
#55 ·
I like the idea of a constant soak but what would that do to my plants and bacteria in the tank? Could I keep him in a kk floating in my 29 for warmth? I'll have to keep making a new dilution for him daily so I don't overdose or have it lose effectiveness. Or I could take out all my plants and filter media and stick it in my 29 during treatment...
 
#57 ·
It's a medium but i also have an ex lg as well. I was thinking of doing 4-6 liters of water and I'll make the bf do the chemistry to make the proper dilution. I could keep him in there daily and do water changes every day or so. I hope i have enough!
 
#59 ·
The medium kritter k is the perfect size..... just fill 50% with water & float on top of your 29G. Your betta may enjoy the view of the other fish in the tank while his eye is being treated with medication. The X-LG KK would be too big.

As for the dangerous ornaments.....
I have wine box full of decorations that I thought were too sharp for the bettas. All the lava rocks are being kept in a different box until I get my ornamental shrimp ONLY tank setup.

If you use the medium KK you should have enough medication.
 
#60 ·
Great! Thanks. The ex-LG is going to be an upgrade for one of my growing geckos very soon so this works out wonderfully. I should get the meds delivered today. Should I cut back on feedings while I'm treating him in the KK?
My plan is to do water changes every day to avoid any ammonia buildup. I normally feed every other day but should I change that to every 2 days while he's in treatment?
 
#61 ·
Typically

I use.......

  • scratched wine glasses as "FLOATING" observation/hospital tanks for tail damage from fighting.

    or if I have several bettas that need treatment, I'll use...

  • a 2.5g glass tank divided into 2, 3 or 4 equal sections

When it comes to feeding, it totally depends how often you want to change out the water. If fish is thin feed more, chunky then once every 48 hours in hopes they'll slim down a bit, etc...

  • I prefer to overfeed a varied diet when they're in "treatment" & it seems to make them care less about being stuck in a little container for a week.
  • Depending on my schedule, I try to replace the water every 24-48 hours.

Also, I'm not sure if the medication has any directions/recommendations but if you're using a concentrated dose you may want to do a WC more often.
 
#62 · (Edited)
All meds have directions. The directions for Kanaplex is one level scoop (I use the lid to level) every 48 hours for every 5 gallons. So to dillute you can take 5 teaspoons of your tank water into a cup and one level of the kanaplex. Mix it up so it's fully dissolved then take as many teaspoons out as you are in gallons.. so if he's in a 1 gallon quarantine you can take 1 teapoon out and add it to the tank. You can use Prazi and Kanaplex together, but just watch him carefully in case he gets really lethargic then I wouldn't continue treating both together. Prazi will probably take at least 2 weeks to clear anything up based on experience and research, but Kanaplex would work much faster.

He's not bloated at all is he? The pics on the first page suggest he's a little slender. I would continue to feed normally..5-8 NLS a day split up and a fast day a week. I would never overfeed.
 
#63 ·
He's not bloated at all! I think I'm going try the kanoplex on it's own in a separate tank for a week first.. because I have a feeling it will do the trick. And I'll know much quicker. It should come in the mail later today. If I make a dilution like that, won't the excess lost it's effectiveness? I have a gram scale, so I might do grams/liter to dilute since I'll be using liters to measure how much water is in his tank.

If the Kanomycin doesn't work I'll get my hands on Minocycline which the 3rd generation of tetracycline... but hopefully it won't come to that!


The gram scale is for gecko weights.. not drugs I swear!
 
#64 ·
Minocycline (brand name Maracyn II) is typically no longer effective in fish because it's been overused and abused. A lot of fish bacteria have built up a resistance to it and in addition, it is very hard on the kidneys. If Kanaplex didn't work, I doubt minocycline will. :/
 
#65 · (Edited)
Agreed ^

There are meds that still have potential to work if Kanaplex fails. Maracyn Plus has some potential. However, Kanaplex is generally very effective on eye infections.

When you mix up the meds you'll have to throw away the excess. There's plenty in the tube to last you months of redosing. To treat you take 5 teaspoons of choice of tank water into a little cup and one level (use the lid to level it off) measure of the Kanplex. Mix it up well so that it's dissolved. Then take however many gallons the quarantine tank is... measure in gallons because Kanaplex is measured scoop/5g and if you don't you'll have to do a gallons to liter conversion and it won't be exact. So if it's like 1 gallon you take one teaspoon out to use and toss the rest. If it's 2.5 gallons you take 2.5 teaspoons out; toss the rest.
 
#67 ·
Okay, he's in about 1 gallon of water with the proper dilution of kanaplex! I have a silk plant in there for him and fed him before I put him in there. I'll leave him in there for 48 hours, then do a 100% change and repeat.

Here's a stupid question.. how long will the good bacteria in his main tank survive without an ammonia source? There are plans and pest snails in there.. so I'm assuming the cycle won't crash without him?
 
#68 ·
I don't know if snails will be enough to maintain a cycle.. I would tend to say yes, but hopefully someone else will know more and can comment. You can feed it with drops of pure ammonia from Ace Hardware but be aware you'll have to do a test for nitrates and likely do a very large water change to get rid of them before you add him back.. but again don't know how the snails would fair on that.
 
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