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info about cycling my tank

2K views 53 replies 15 participants last post by  prodrumernate 
#1 ·
i cleaned out my 10 gallon the past week.making sure to kill off anything in it and start new..im trying to decide how i want to cycle it..i thought about buying feeder fish from a local pet store.maybe comet goldies or rosy red's...i do want to keep the fish if they survive.but since they are cheap.i thought it might be a good idea.i cant afford shrimp or anything.i have a lot of food.well flakes.but im not sure i want to use it because i dont want the food sitting at the bottom and have to vacuum it up all the time.and some of it getting down in my gravel..

i also have a 2 gallon that has been setup for months and do weekly water changes.non filtered.i was also wondering if that tank though not filtered has the BB in it and could use some of the water from it when doing water changes..it houses my female betta.

im not so much trying to hurry and do it.but making sure its done correctly and if possibly as quickly as possible.i want to move my male beta from my 1 gallon hospital tank into my 10 gallon..

any ideas about using water from my 2 gallon?and feeder fish?

thanks :)
 
#29 ·
I've been debating on plopping Mr. Clean(small pleco) back into Spike's tank.
Spike has an anacharis in there. But I'm thinking Mr. Clean may produce too much ammonia for the plant to keep up on. Another issue is Mr. Clean's needs. I've got the 75 gallon, so need be he can go back in there. BUT the driftwood is FAR too big to fit into Spike's tank.
 
#30 ·
personally i think Mr. Clean and the plant would be fine.if your tank is filtered.then i surely dont see any problems.the plant will take in what it can.the way i look at it is the population of the earth.it has increased a lot over the years.and the plant population has decreased..yet the plants still thrive with no problems.on top of pollution :) and if you are that concerned.i would put a few more plants.actually it might be better having Mr.Clean in there..it will help give the plant the minerals it needs. :)
 
#33 ·
Yes they do. Especially when they have an abundant food source.
I maybe getting another plant this weekend(moneywort or wisteria?). I know that my PetsMart has what appears to be netrie snails hitch hiking on the plants.
Maybe they'll help me out on this algae. I haven't got a clue how this algae is coming back full force/faster. There's no sunlight/tank lighting is limited to 10 hours max.
 
#32 ·
i would think a lot of factors would have to be about the size of the pleco,and the type and size of the plant.things like that..but i would think 1 single plant wouldnt be enough,then again it could be.kinda makes me want to do some research to find out whats the output of a pleco and the intake of a plant.im sure there is something out there about it.but we also have to keep in mind the BB does a lot also.so if the tank is established i dont see a reason why a couple plants wouldnt be enough :)
 
#35 ·
i guess really the best way to cycle is fish-in..though it can be inhumane if it done incorrectly and u use sensitive fish.my tank is fine.my fish are as happy as can be and still as active as ever.so i must be doing it rite :) ammonia is no higher than .50ppm and i keep it at that or less when possible..though im still waiting for that initial spike.checking the water every day
 
#36 ·
I was able to order ammonia online from drtimsaquatics.com. It's dilluted with water. It says a drop per gallon, but it took 30 drops in my 5 gallon tank to get it up to the initial 2ppm. It's not too expensive, it should last a bit. I'm new at cycling and am still cycling my 5 gallon, but I have a 10 gallon I'm going to divide for 2 male bettas. Do you guys think I should cycle it? I don't really want to wait since the boys are in 1 gallon bowls at the moment...
 
#37 ·
once your 5 gallon is cycled.u can use the water from it to start to cycle your 10 gallon.but yes you need to cycle your 10 gallon as well.really anything bigger than a 5 gallon needs to be cycled.i have 1 male in a 1 gallon and a female in a half gallon.they will have to wait a while before i can put them in bigger tanks.and im in the process of moving...just a few apartment doors down.but they are fine as long as i keep the water clean.

the fish will be fine in a 1 gallon as long as its cleaned and maintained,they are fed.and u give them attention.oh and they have a hiding place as well as the temp is in range.my 2 smallest dont have heaters.but my apartment stays atleast 75 and no higher than 83.

so i know how you feel about the 1 gallon situation.but its better to cycle the tank than risking not doing it and it cycling anyways and causing more problems
 
#46 ·
im glad u mentioned about the ppm for ammonia.mines at .50 with fish in.i was thinking of changing once it got above .50..but now i will once it gets that high.i had a couple rosy red minnow die today.wondering if it is the ammonia being that high the past few days.i was expecting a few deaths considering i know these fish arent very well taken care of.and i know the risk of other diseases and everything.but the fish arent dying from any other symptoms.i think when i wake up ill change the water..

how much should i change?10 gallon new cycle aquarium with .50ppm ammonia.nitrite and nitrate is at 0 currently and ph is 7.6ish...i want to keep the rosy red as pets no matter what
 
#48 · (Edited)
Nate,

0.50ppm ammonia is twice what fish should ever be subjected to, even ones as rugged as Betta.
0.25 is considered maximum for fish-in cycling. I consider that way too much. Anything over 0.0ppm is ...well, like you hanging out in a smoke-filled room.

Allowing this is especially egregious when you consider that there are alternatives. <see above>

Aahnay,

Dollar store ammonia, even grocery store or hardware store ammonia, most often contains additives and surfactants. Sometimes it's even labelled "Pure."

Don't believe it. Shake the bottle. If it foams, it is NOT "pure" ammoniium hydroxide.

Dr Tim's and Ace (hardware) brand Janitorial Strength Ammonia are two among very few alternatives.

Ammonia chloride can be had from laboratpry or chemical supply outfits...or so I am told.
 
#49 ·
then ill have to change the water asap..thank you for verifying :)
 
#51 ·
I am kind of repeating what I said in post #9, 13 and 15...but I felt it need to explained a bit more...

No matter what the Betta is kept in...It will produce byproducts and the water need to be changed....the only difference is the bacteria you are trying to colonize in the filtered tank-vs-unfiltered tank.......

Fishless cycling was started to begin with so that you could establish beneficial bacteria to support the bioload of the community tank to stock it once completed.

The Beneficial bacteria you want to establish are self limiting....meaning that the colony is based on surface area, oxygen and food source.....If you cycle for 10 fish and only add 1 fish...all that extra BB will die/consume themselves due to limited food source....

Cycling with/for a lone Betta is different in some regards than cycling for community tanks.

As long as the needs are met for the BB-surface area, oxygen and food-they will colonize on their own in time.

The BB are sticky and adhere to all the surface areas within the tank-like the walls, decorations, plants-both real and fake, in the top layer of substrate and in the filter/filter media.....Very little are in the water column itself.....Water only changes will not hurt the cycle or cycling process....But over clean or under cleaning can....Its a balance......scrub the walls, vacuum, change the filter media..etc... can remove too much of the BB...and allowing too much mulm/debris to build up on the substrate and poor filter media care- can suffocate the BB by limiting oxygen.

The balance-weekly water changes with vacuum in all areas that can be reached without moving anything or disruption of plant roots.
Filter media needs a rinse/swish in the bucket of old tank water or dechlorinated water to remove the large pieces of gunk to maintain good water/oxygen flow a couple of times a month.
Cleaning the viewing walls and some of the decorations weekly-leaving the non-viewing walls so that the BB colony and algae can grow.

You can remove all the water and not cause problems with the BB as long as you don't clean everything and remove all that sticky BB that has colonized.

The BB is alive and you treat it somewhat like the fish...meaning-if it will kill the fish it will most likely kill the BB....

You don't want to base water changes on water test alone-since you also have DOC's that can be problematic when they build up.
You do want to monitor water prams after water changes for a day or so-especially if you did a big/major vacuum/cleaning of walls, decorations and filter media.

Weekly 50% water changes with vacuum in 5gal and larger tanks is what I recommend to maintain water quality in a properly stocked tank. And making 50% water only with water prams of Ammonia or Nitrite 0.25ppm or greater.
For high nitrate over 80ppm-you don't want to lower this too fast since it can shock the fish-but if the nitrate is greater than 80ppm-usually this mean the tank has been neglected and other chemistry will be an issue too.....

You also can have skewed test results based on type of additives used, the source water itself can have ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. With extreme low pH can have an impact on BB-they can't colonize in pH 6 or less, water temp can speed up or slow the process, limited surface area can cause stability issues and massive amount of some species of active growing plants can altar the process.... to name a few things that can change the process......
 
#52 · (Edited)
but yes you need to cycle your 10 gallon as well.really anything bigger than a 5 gallon needs to be cycled.
I used to have 2 uncycled 10 gallons. My apt in Alaska was built in the 60's and was not properly maintained so I was afraid of plugging in too many things into the outlets, so I skipped on the filters. They actually did have a bad electrical fire but it wasn't started by me :)Water changes aren't THAT bad if you have a gravel siphon. There were only 3 bettas in each tank though. I have filters now though :-D
 
#53 ·
i actually thought about doing like a 75% water change because my ammonia was so high and 25% wasnt doing any good.i did a 50% earlier this morning then about a 20% this afternoon sicne my ammonia was at 1ppm then dropped down to .50 and now is at about .25 roughly.ill keep on the water changes once it gets above .25...thank you OFL for getting into detail.i really did need that. :)
 
#54 ·
Tikibirds i dont mind cleaning out the tank water.infact i think at 1 time i was over doing it..but this time i want to let the tank cycle correctly and allow the filter to do its job...though i thought about just changing the water.but i understand how you feel.the apartment i live in is old.the outlets are so bad that they wont hold anything in them.we have to tape the plugs to it.finally we got tired and asked the old manager to give us some outlets and i replaced the ones near me and my dad changed the ones in his room.i already had a short just a week or 2 ago bcuz of bad wiring.but i fixed it.i just had to fix my plug today because the wires kept coming loose shutting off my filter and light to my 10 gallon.but all is good now :)
 
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